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Bill: Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Church of Divine Rengheed
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2789
Description[?]:
| We, the Church of Divine Rengheed are suing the President Kynes for several hundred acres taken by the republic government. The land was taken illegally from us, and for no reason. We want it back, and also the right to create our own church communities there, where members will be allowed to live according to church laws, customs and beleifs. The case will be overseen by Judge Paul R. Nolan (URP). He is the judge of the area, in which the disputed lands are. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:52:40, July 12, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC; You do realize this is a no-go since we have no Supreme Court or any other RP court. And you also need the consent of the rest of the players in the country to even attempt to do something like this. Aside from that, naming the judge of your own case is not what we like to call "justice." I mean, you can RP this all you want but it will, most likely, not be recognized due to the reasons explained above and others. It can even be considered godmoding by both you and YankeeHater (if he accepts to RP this) given that there is no role playing Court established. You see what happens when you get rid of the stuff I created. I created it them for a reason gentlemen: To avoid useless confrontations. |
| Date | 20:32:41, July 12, 2009 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: we would be open to new court RP models to be proposed. As a side note the RNP do not support private bodies creating separate entities within our sovereign state and we feel that every person within Lodamun should be bound by the same laws. |
| Date | 23:25:50, July 12, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: It's simple. Put this bill to a vote. Then it can proceed having been endorsed by the Parliament. A separate bill could then be introduced by where the case can be argued. Also, I think the CDR shouldn't be suing Kregon, it should sue whoever confiscated the lands such as the former minister of justice, former president, etc. In regards to the NP comment- I believe this is an issue of national and not regional law. |
| Date | 23:33:59, July 12, 2009 CET | From | Church of Divine Rengheed | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | The lands would be under the same laws as other communities and towns in Lodamun. However, the towns were banned before, due to the CDR beleif that in public places (parks, town squares, churches) men and women should be seperated. |
| Date | 05:41:43, July 13, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | PUT THIS TO A VOTE |
| Date | 12:11:49, July 13, 2009 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | The description says according to church laws, if them church work contrary to that of National Law then they must not be allowed. |
| Date | 15:23:58, July 13, 2009 CET | From | Church of Divine Rengheed | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: Sorry, forgot to proceed with the voting. |
| Date | 16:26:33, July 13, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: Like I stated before: You cannot name your own judge nor can the judge be affiliated with a party given our current laws. Parliament has nothing to do with lawsuits. So, passing this bill means absolutely nothing. P.S. I have consulted with other players on this issue to get an impartial response to my inquiry. |
| Date | 20:19:10, July 13, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | The reason this bill is being voted upon is to simply prove that a majority of Parliament approve of this framework. We don't need pointless amendments when there is currently a system of courts. The judge's party identification is simply to indicate who controls him for RP purposes. I understand that the LP is afraid to present a logical argument in defense of its policies since I have yet to see one. Judge Paul R. Nolan will provide a ruling based on the arguments presented and unlike the "justice" system during the dictatorship, we will proceed in a fair manner. |
| Date | 20:31:45, July 13, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: Since you don't seem to understand when someone speaks to you in a very soft way, I have to resort to other means. Your RP will not be recognized as valid. If you proceed with this role-played event, I will file a complaint with the moderators for breaking the very important rule (game comes first), failing to obtain consent from the players in your country, and for godmoding. I have to advice you that the players I resorted to for my inquiry are part of the moderation team and their opinion is impartial. Of course, I am not implying in any way that they will side one way or another should a complaint be filed. One last thing I will add: Either start using the OCC/IC classifications or I will add that to the complaint as well. Your improper use or should I say lack of use of the OOC classification is annoying and confusing and against the rules. Example from your last comment: "The judge's party identification is simply to indicate who controls him for RP purposes." Don't take this as a warning, take it as a friendly advice. That's what it is. |
| Date | 20:38:48, July 13, 2009 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: I really dont know how we should vote on this. |
| Date | 20:45:49, July 13, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: I think the question here is not whether you agree with the case or not but whether you think this RP is allowed based on the game's laws, which, as I have stated before, is not. You know, I would have had no problem if they had consulted with us first and we came up with a plan to include everyone on the case. Sort of what the previous Supreme Court used to be. But no, they had to go ahead and force their way through. That's not how it is done. |
| Date | 21:22:21, July 13, 2009 CET | From |  Federal Republican Party (ZC) | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: This is the PM I originally sent to The Liberal Party and I think it needs posted here to clarify some things. "You do realize this is a no-go since we have no Supreme Court or any other RP court." This actually wouldn't matter. I do understand you had a special court system setup in constitutional amendments which have since been overturned. I liked them myself but, that's really irrelevant to this issue. The ultimate rule of this game is the system comes first, game comes first, however you'd like to phrase it. That said the current laws of Lodamun establish the following: 1: There are regional courts that have jurisdiction over questions of regional law and national courts that have jurisdiction over questions of national law. 2: Every person has the right to appeal against a judgement and to have it reviewed by a higher court. 3: Local governments determine the method of appointment of mayors. 4: All government employees have to promise political independence. Those are the laws and within the game they exist. Whether or not they are actively role-played is not the issue. Now however it is the issue. Though those 4 points are the key to the situation and any compromise, consensus or deal that will come out of all this. That is my view; I'm not speaking for George as I've honestly not talked to him or any other mods about this. "And you also need the consent of the rest of the players in the country to even attempt to do something like this." Again not entirely correct nor entirely wrong. Consent would be required between the people involved in the lawsuit; clearly. Though this doesn't imply other parties have to bother at all; all you can do is encourage them to engage in the role-play should you consent to all of this. "Aside from that, naming the judge of your own case is not what we like to call "justice." Quite right. As I pointed out in my four-points, he doesn't have that authority. What is in quotes is from Liberal Parties original post at the top here. Hope this helps. |
| Date | 22:24:55, July 13, 2009 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | Maybe we can draw up a set of rules that will govern how we do court RP in Lodamun in the new parliamentary term. |
| Date | 00:47:01, July 14, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: I recommend this one: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=237314 |
| Date | 02:08:00, July 14, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | No, we're not returning to LP "justice." This bill can simply be handled a different ways if the Liberals refuse the common decency of accepting some URP and CDR RP after all the shit we had to put up with. |
| Date | 02:09:59, July 14, 2009 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: Msg to Liberal Party STOP GODMODDING. |
| Date | 02:42:12, July 14, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: "after all the shit we had to put up with." Oh...did I hurt your feelings? Is that the problem? To my fans: I will always love you no matter what you say. |
| Date | 02:54:20, July 14, 2009 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: The only feelings that seem hurt are yours Yankees thats whats so funny about the situation. You cant get your way. |
| Date | 02:57:35, July 14, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: My previous comment ("To my fans: I will always love you no matter what you say.") was my way of politely saying: Stop commenting in Lodamun's bills unless it directly involves you or your country. You don't want me to report you, correct? |
| Date | 02:58:10, July 14, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: No need to reply to that last question. |
| Date | 03:02:52, July 14, 2009 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: You are threatening to report me? Lol, you are so pathetic. Go ahead and do it see if I care because I dont. Do me a favour and dont reply to this message. |
| Date | 09:31:46, July 14, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Urban Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | Parties from other nations, please refrain from commenting here. We won't be running around like idiots banning and warning everyone simply because they got reported or listed somewhere or made stupid comments not directly concerning them. Jesus. To the matter at hand, take into consideration the fact that in most nations, there are no special laws to define certain roleplaying situations such as this one. Now, simply because the LP had a set of resolutions that somewhat determined the process of the roleplaying in Lodamun doesn't mean i's the actual valid work, since all of them have been repealed. Outside the personal feelings boundaries, I'm honestly inclined and will say that all RP ought to be mutually consented from the beginning, in which case this hasn't yet been proven valid or otherwise. I will quote Magrave's words here: "Again not entirely correct nor entirely wrong. Consent would be required between the people involved in the lawsuit; clearly. Though this doesn't imply other parties have to bother at all; all you can do is encourage them to engage in the role-play should you consent to all of this." You may recognize it or may recognize it in the end, do with this RP whatever you please. Moderation honestly can't help in this situation simply because it's a damn simple roleplaying situation in which no one forced anyone to participate. Also, the election of the URP as the judge party and character of this situation should be regarded as something within the limits of RP, and not as the illegal act of appointing things ought not to be appointed. I'm just saying that you guys need to discuss this civilly and anyone who doesn't wish to participate ought not to participate. But this is a simple game actually, and say the matter of nuking some cities was at stake here in this bill. Would you stay out? Just enjoy the RP - this is a game based on imagination that affects you in no way in real life. Enjoy it then. Cheers, Moderation Team |
| Date | 15:41:31, July 14, 2009 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: after the comments of the Moderation team I am voting yes! |
| Date | 01:22:08, July 15, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | I think the bill is clearly legal, but to avoid meaningless conflict, I suggest that parties simply vote on the bill to restore the lands. I thought it would be interesting to RP something, but it's clear that the Liberals are not interested in RP which it cannot completely control. The LP is just a sad, sad party bent on ruining Particracy for the rest of us. |
| Date | 03:48:37, July 15, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: Of course I want to ruin Particracy for all of you. I am that evil. After all, it's not like I have anything to do in real life. |
| Date | 04:13:21, July 15, 2009 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | Master of the obvious |
| Date | 06:50:09, July 16, 2009 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | OOC: What is the purpose of this? |
| Date | 23:44:21, July 18, 2009 CET | From |  Christian Democratic Party | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | We support of course and everything stated by the fake Liberals does not represent the Real Liberals views. |
| Date | 00:00:43, July 19, 2009 CET | From | Democratic United Front | To | Debating the Church of Divine Rengheed vs Republic of Kregon (Case #22133) |
| Message | We will abstain from the bill. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 114 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 24 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 62 |
| Random fact: When you join the game, you will find yourself with only zero seats. That's because your party's representatives haven't been elected yet. You need to establish your party's position on issues by proposing several bills that your party wants passed and sending them to vote. This raises your visibility and if you do it enough, you will win seats at the next election. |
| Random quote: "Politics is all about compromises and negotiations, nothing more, nothing less." - Augusto Amadeo, former Istalian politician |