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Bill: One School Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Democratic Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 2826
Description[?]:
| Charter schools lack the accountability that our fine public schools have and often score badly in test results. Studies have also shown many instances of charter schools cutting programs or refusing to educate students with special needs in order to maintain profitability. The public schools bind our communities together, and are not the place for business, talk of profits or sponsorship. They should be temples of learning and ensure Rutanian's children receive the best education possible. Tony Manson Education and Culture Liberal Democratic Party |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Charter school policy (free, privately run, publicly funded schools).
Old value:: Charter school funding, regulation, and development is left up to local governments.
Current: Only non-profit organizations may establish charter schools.
Proposed: Charter schools are not allowed.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The governments stance on religious schools.
Old value:: Any religion may set up a school, with no regulations.
Current: Religious schools are allowed, but are strictly regulated. Only recognised religions may set up religious schools.
Proposed: Religious schools are not allowed.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 11:20:11, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Heritage Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | This proposal is absolutely rediculous. Charter schools are held accountable by the standard of their results, making it virtually impossible for them to 'score badly' without losing all government funding - the very idea that underpins the charter school system is that they are results-driven, and therefore highly competitive. We question the LDP's sources, as we are unaware of any sound and unbiased studies showing that charter schools achieve lower standards on average than public schools, and this claim sounds highly suspicious. We see no reason why schools are not the place for 'business', as it has been proven that private schools running effectively as businesses generally provide better services and resources and higher standards of teaching due to their competitive nature - this being the case, it would seem that schools running as businesses are far more than those that are not. To clarify, we do not wish to abolish the public school system or to downplay its importance, but the LDP's statement that charter schools are less productive than public schools is a highly contentious claim. |
| Date | 12:16:33, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | This argumentation is really ridiculous as the honourable Senator of the RHP stated. Besides it clearly displays the fact that the LDP lacks all kind of ideological coherence and accuracy. How can a party labelled as "liberal" support such anti-market policies as the LDP did so in many instances. Liberalism was and is an a thought paradigm on which most of Rutania's legislation was based. Our suspicion is that the LDP either lacks the effective knowledge about liberalism or deliberately wants to deceive the Rutanian people. John Patrick Bozarburg, Senator, REP |
| Date | 12:45:05, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | I would also like to warn the LDP about the moral costs of this proposal. An ad-hoc strike is being made in this moment in front of the Senate (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=91&p=13998#p13998). J.P. Bozarburg |
| Date | 17:11:58, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | We thank the Heritage Party for their comments on our proposals. The LDP wish to see a public education system for all, and so wish to abolish any other kinds of schools, including charter, religious and private. These schools would be changed to public schools resulting in no displacement for the children and no job losses. This would also ensure that anyone spouting creationism never gets close to a classroom. I can understand the concerns of the citizens striking but, when our comprehensive education plan is fully implemented it will be for the better for all Rutanian's, not just the elite. Again we wish the REP would concentrate on debate of issues rather than ideological arguments. She really must focus on the issues rather than worrying about the intellect of the members of parties. Tony Manson Education and Culture Liberal Democratic Party |
| Date | 19:42:22, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | It is unbelievable that despite popular rejection, the LDP now wants to ban religious schools as well. How do they believe this improves anything in this country? It is only a violation of individual liberty. As the LDP can see protest movements spread around the whole country. (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=91&p=14001&sid=82d109dcfb490d1b89e043445c3a4bbc#p14001) We require the LDP to withdraw this bill. John Patrick Bozarburg |
| Date | 20:55:47, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Restoration Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | First off, we would like to echo the sentiments of the honourable RHP senator, which he shared earlier. Now, we see that there would be no job losses or school displacements, that makes sense. We do, however, have a problem with banning creationism from the classroom. As a party, the OP believe both the Big Bang/evolution and creationism should be taught side by side and let the students decide for themselves. We can't see any benefit in this bill and the LDP's overall plan. Charter schools have proven their academic records are exemplary. Doing away with them would lower the standard of education in the Commonwealth. Therefore, we cannot support. |
| Date | 23:08:49, September 30, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | I thank the Orange Party for their comments. I do not wish to engage in conversation with the Republican Elitist Party when they continue to threaten violence. Violence is always the refuge of the bully when their arguments falter. We suggest they try and promote the ballot box instead of guns to their supporters in future. It is a small minority of illeducated people who follow creationism, it has no basis in science and is thoroughly discredited in educational circles. I suggest that if we school children in creationism, we should also teach father christmas as fact, as well as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. They both have as much empirical evidence of being fact as creationism does. Tony Manson Education and Culture Liberal Democratic Party |
| Date | 23:26:21, September 30, 2009 CET | From | United Democrats | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | How can we 'teach' creationism effectively? There is no tangible facts or figures, there is no proof. It is not a matter of teaching but merely a matter of brainwashing. On the other hand, there is many facts about evolution that can be proved. Surely our teachers should only be allowed to teach things that are indeed true. How about we suddenly discard all facts and proof and state that we all live on the sun? Surely a teacher would not be permitted to teach this... Sarah Richardson Education & Culture Advisor Democratic Party of Rutania |
| Date | 01:30:22, October 01, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Heritage Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | Creationism is no less valid in theory than evolutionism. Darwin's theory should not be taken for granted as 'fact' merely because it is widely accepted in scientific circles, particularly as science is fickle and ever-changing in nature - one theory that has been accepted for decades could be refuted instantaneously, and then a different theory would become the orthodoxy. We question the LDP's and the DPR's moral and intellectual authority to decide what is 'true' and what's not for the people of Rutania, and to determine what information is available to them based on these audacious assumptions. Surely the LDP and the DPR are aware that Rutania has a large Christian demographic, to which creationism is truth, whether it can be 'proven' or not, and evolutionism is a heresy - if Christian families want their children to be taught creationism and prayers in class, should this not be so, merely because those who have a different conception of 'truth' disagree with them? The LDP and the DPR are suggesting that if two groups in society with different and opposing views come against one another, one side must ultimately prevail - we do not disagree with this assumption, and, in fact, it is entirely realistic. However, if one group must prevail and impose itself on the other, the RHP believe it should be the Christians, and this is no more arbitrary than the LDP's desire to see secular-humanism imposed on the populace. |
| Date | 02:14:35, October 01, 2009 CET | From | United Democrats | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | Science is full of facts, these facts may be dis-proven at times but only to prove themselves again with more facts. Never has there been a single fact or proof of creationism, no experiments have been successfully carried out in the name of religion or creationism. The Evolution Theory has been widely accepted as the principle argument for human and animal progression. Evolution is what our children should learn. If a religious parent feels strongly about this, they can take advantage of our Home-Schooling law and teach their children from home. |
| Date | 02:29:24, October 01, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | It is inappropriate to call to call it a theory, this is inaccurate. There is significant molecular genetic evidence. You are correct in saying science is always improving itself, but by careful analysis and empirical evidence. The evidence for creatonism is non-existsent. Furthermore, contrary to the Heritage parties point, Rutania is predominatley a secular society, and although we fully respect the Rutanian's who are religious, we do not feel it is right to teach unproven dogma. We should teach our children to question, to be critical, to develop a wonder for the world. Anyone who belives in creationism clearly doesn't have those skills. It is extremely worrying the Heritage party would choose fictional stories to be taught as fact rather than science. When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong. If you are able to spell out any evidence for creationism here, I will change my position and support its teachings in schools. Tony Manson Education and Culture Liberal Democratic Party |
| Date | 08:09:19, October 01, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Heritage Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | The LDP have misunderstood the RHP's intentions - we make no assumptions on behalf of the Rutanian people as to what is 'truth' and what is 'fiction', and therefore, we feel no need to divulge the personal beliefs of any of the RHP's members on creationism or darwinism, as the beliefs of RHP members are virtually irrelevant to our primary argument. The main problem the RHP has with what the LDP has argued is that the party is trying to abolish religion in schools, based on their own ideological prejudices and their obsession with 'reason' and 'empiricism', while blatantly ignoring the enormous value of Christianity as a fundamental pillar of our civilized society, and an integral and inextricable part of Rutania's cultural heritage, to which we owe many of our collective morals and values. The LDP assume that those theories that can supposedly be 'proven' by the calculations of scientists automatically become 'truth', while those that cannot must not be true - they merely seek to replace faith in God with an unquestioning faith in the new deity of modern science, which is essentially no less arbitrary than the former. Thus, whether creationism or evolutionism are 'true' or not is virtually irrelevant to the RHP's primary objection to this legislation - this legislation is an attempt by the LDP to undermine the personal initiative and responsibility of the Rutanian people. The LDP presumes moral and intellectual superiority to the families of Rutania by imposing a ban on the teaching of viewpoints and theories in schools that differ with their own. The LDP are merely trying to hijack the school curriculum to make it a vehicle for their own ideology - much akin to the methods of Mao's Communist China - stripping families of their most basic prerogative to raise their children in a manner that they deem appropriate, consistent with their own values and beliefs. The LDP wants to convert every school - whether religious, private or charter - to a federal government-funded and managed public school, with the obvious intention of imposing their own ideology on schools and students through a uniform curriculum that eliminates all dissent. We find it incredibly ironic, therefore, that the LDP claim "we should teach our children to question" and "to be critical". The LDP have also misunderstood us in claiming that "the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between" two opposite viewpoints - the RHP never made such a claim, nor was it implied. What we argue is that if evolutionism and Christianity come against one another - and one side must ultimately prevail and impose its views on the other, given that complete unanimity in society is always impossible - then Christianity should prevail, as it is a cornerstone of our civilized society, and a bastion of morality, common decency and social order. |
| Date | 10:52:33, October 01, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | We second all the arguments brought up by the RHP. We would also like to introduce a different dimension in the debate. We think that 'creationism' and 'darwinism' cannot be discussed in the same register. 'Creationism' is a creed, is a question of faith which does not have anything to do with rationality, and we accept that this is not a fortunate thing. But there are people who think that these issues are important in their lives. That is why the government harm the right of the people to choose their faith. It is their business and we cannot do anything in this respect. Let us assume that there will be a government which declares the thoughts of the LDP or REP as being false and try to abolish these views. In this case we would not accept this situation and would feel offended. Our goal is not to create artificially a homogeneous society in which everybody thinks in the same manner. In the spirit of the Rutanian national motto we should encourage individuality and liberty even if a group does not really agree with the views of others. With all due respect, we have to say that totalitarian censorship or religious inquisition can be also legitimized on the basis of the LDP's arguments. Boromir Kreuz, Vice-President REP |
| Date | 14:46:18, October 01, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Heritage Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | The REP have presented sound arguments, and we endorse what they have said, particularly their point that we cannot attempt to engineer a society according to a certain theory or ideal - such an attempt will always end in failure, as the nature of man's society is that it cannot be re-created, nor can it even be properly understood. |
| Date | 18:24:24, October 02, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the One School Act |
| Message | If you believe in the literal translation of the bible, do you alo agree that homosexuality is an "abomination"? Do you also condon slavery? If someone works on the Sabbeth, do you believe they should be executed? Are these the laws we should be teaching our children? Tony Manson Education and Culture Liberal Democratic Party |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 96 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 177 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 32 |
| Random fact: Head to the "Language assistance" thread to receive and offer help with translations: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6368 |
| Random quote: "John Burroughs has stated that experimental study of animals in captivity is absolutely useless. Their character, their habits, their appetites undergo a complete transformation when torn from their soil in field and forest. With human nature caged in a narrow space, whipped daily into submission, how can we speak of its potentialities?" - Emma Goldman |