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Bill: Ratification of the United Countries
Details
Submitted by[?]: Selucian Sovereignty Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill proposes for the ratification of a treaty. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2143
Description[?]:
| This bill asks for the ratification of the <a href="viewtreaty.php?treatyid=130">United Countries</a>. If this treaty is ratified, it becomes binding and will define national law. |
Proposals
Article 1
Ratify the United Countries.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:31:21, November 15, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | I just thought I'd throw this one on the floor for discussion purposes in a more formal setting. VF has already made a statement that he is concerned about a loss of sovereignty if we join the UN. It seems to be a rather voluntary and non-binding institution, I'm not so concerned about loss of sovereignty based on the above text. It sounds to me like a loose affiliation of nations that get together and discuss matters. I'm not sure how effective it would be, but am concerned that not joining would diminish our international profile. Thoughts? |
| Date | 21:56:06, November 15, 2005 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | I think there will be a loss of sovereignty if we join the UN. I hate all sovereingty parties, but not real sovereignty |
| Date | 22:36:17, November 15, 2005 CET | From | Seleucus Nicator | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | Yes, it does, at present, seem to be a very loose, non-binding institution. The question is, "What will this 'UC' do?" If it does not intend to pass regulations to be implemented by member countries, then what is its purpose? Why should we join a useless organization? If, however, it is to have real power, then what will that power be. Will we join now, only to be shackled once we are within its grasp? Certainly we can withdraw, but that itself is a long and arduous process. Mark my words, should that day of need come, the Empire will be abandoned by those who are in a position to change things for the better. |
| Date | 03:01:44, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | I'm not too concerned about withdrawal. Ratification requires 2/3 majority, while withdrawal is by simple majority. My personal view is that we should be part of the greater international community. I too share VF's concerns though. When one reads this, one thinks "where is this all leading". That being said, I'd rather be a member and help steer this organization on a proper course, then not be a member at all and helplessly watch it turn into a monstrousity. |
| Date | 03:49:15, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Seleucus Nicator | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | What is its proper course? It has no direction. The Empire cannot not set foot on a ship with no final destination. |
| Date | 04:19:19, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Kanjoran Imperial Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | As the foreign minster from Kanjor, a country opposed to this treaty, I want you to think about what the treaty is creating. It is forming a place for international laws/standards to be created that will lessen your nation's sovereignty. If you sign this treaty, you will be compromising the freedom of your country to act on the will of it's own people and putting it into the will of people half way across the world. Even though it is not written in the treaty, this organization will create the rise of international laws and will destroy your independence. |
| Date | 05:01:35, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | I personally could care less what the foreign minister from Kanjor thinks. Your interference in Selucian domestic matters is in my view unwelcome. Ironically, by interfering, you are also attempting to intrude on Selucian sovereignty. In fact, you've done more to intrude upon it than the United Countries has. I do care what VF has to say. I do not disagree with your first statement that the ship has no direction and currently has no final destination. But would you agree that if we were to seize some control of the ship, that we are capable of navigating it to a sensible port? I think we are in agreement about much of this treaty - the only thing that currently divides us is how do we deal with this emerging entity? Do we join and contribute? Do we ignore it altogether? Do we not join but actively follow its development for future consideration? |
| Date | 06:16:15, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Seleucus Nicator | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | As far as I can tell, this is not a domestic matter, but one of international importance. And, as Foreign Minister of his nation, is it not entirely within his right to brief us on international matters (as a concerned party) whether we agree with his standing or not? I say this not because he takes my viewpoint, but because he is doing what (in my opinion) a Foreign Minister should do. Was it not the foreign minister of Dundorf that encouraged us to join the UC? Is that not interfering in domestic matters? |
| Date | 06:39:00, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | The distinction is that Dundorf sent a message OUTSIDE our assembly, and OUTSIDE this debate. Had Exarchs done the same thing, and sent a simple message to our national switchboard, I would have had no quarrel. However, he barged into OUR assembly, without invitation or permission, and barged in on our debate. That is where the distinction between the two lies. |
| Date | 06:49:31, November 16, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | Secondly, I'd like to dispute your supposition that this is not a domestic matter. I would suggest that it is in fact primarily domestic. Whether we join or not join is UP TO THE PARTIES IN THIS ASSEMBLY. Whether we join or not doesn't affect the affairs of Kanjor, just like whether Kanjor joins or not doesn't affect us. IN future, I hope other dignataries watching this debate, whether pro or con, will restrict their commentaries to avenues that are ouside the halls of this assembly. To do otherwise shows very poor form IMHO. |
| Date | 16:14:14, November 18, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Fascist Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | Nay. |
| Date | 16:48:19, November 18, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | Seems like support for this is pretty non-existant. I'll put it to a vote right now, send it to defeat, so we can move on to other matters. |
| Date | 17:31:31, November 19, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Fascist Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | Surprised, SSP? |
| Date | 19:30:47, November 19, 2005 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the Ratification of the United Countries |
| Message | I'm shocked, actually. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 499 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 76 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Hundreds of vessels were lost while traversing the cold waters of the Sea of Lost Souls. It is located between Seleya and Majatra. |
| Random quote: "There is no other definition of communism valid for us than that of the abolition of the exploitation of man by man." - Che Guevara |