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Bill: Benefits and Pension Act 3122
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Democrats
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 3124
Description[?]:
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy regarding child benefit.
Old value:: The state does not provide child benefit.
Current: The state guarantees child benefit to both low-income families and large families.
Proposed: The state guarantees child benefit to families classified as low-income or poor.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the pension system.
Old value:: There is a compulsory private pension system.
Current: The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.
Proposed: The state offers a voluntary public pension, combined with other voluntary private pensions.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:20:12, May 18, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, we must oppose. This will ruin the great Hutorian work ethic. The idea that one looks out for ones family and that working is the answer - not the benefits system. These two acts will remove the idea of working to support a family by dishing out state handouts. Mr Speaker, the HCP oppose all big-state policies. A large Hutorian state is not an option while the HCP are in office. I believe that the people should be left free from state intervention when possible. This is an area where there needs no intervention at all from the Hutorian state. We must vote against. |
| Date | 16:35:42, May 18, 2011 CET | From |  Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Party Finance Spokesperson, Mr Speaker, I must disagree with the Rt. Honourable Gentleman. There are families out there that are unable to survive on the minimum wage, and that is through no fault of their own. These people are trapped in a cycle which prevents them from bettering them selves through higher education. How can a privileged Viscount presume to know what our people are really going through to keep their head's above water? An out of touch Finance Minister for an out of touch Party. |
| Date | 20:22:00, May 18, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, the Lady opposite should learn her background history before making such comments. I was not born a Viscount, i was awarded the title after 30 years Parliamentary service when i came from an upper middle class background. I am far from "priviledged" compared to some who live in the Hutorian state. Mr Speaker, this LDP should know the basics of Conservative ideological thought. We support small state ideology and we place the importance of society above that of the individual. I believe that Hutori as a whole benefits from voting down this Bill - rather than a few who benefit from a massive welfare state. |
| Date | 21:34:15, May 18, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Party Finance Spokesperson Mr Speaker, my background history is pretty spot on if you ask me. "Upper Middle Class". That says it all really doesn't it? What about the local shop keeper, the factory worker, the coal miner? From what the Rt Honourble Gentleman has said I am to pressume that everyone in Hutori forms one gigantic middle class. That is not something shared by social commentators Mr Speaker. What the Rt Honourable Gentleman meant to say was that a few people benefit from voting down this bill, most likely from the Upper Middle Class. A group so concerned with avoiding paying taxes to help those less fortunate, that they would see those who need this help out on the streets. |
| Date | 23:05:50, May 18, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, perhaps the Lady should refrain from personal slurs and adress the issues like the HCP. We are a party of government and have answered every question the Liberal Democrats throw at us whenever there is no mechanism to force us to do so....and this is what i recieve in return? Perhaps in future i will not answer the Lady when she asks questions in the House. I also reject the views that i am simply trying to avoid taxes and i shall reffer the member to the Parliamentary conduct Act - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=309749 when talking about other members. Mr Speaker, this is not an issue about individual jobs. This is an issue about the entire Hutorian society and we will not marginalise Hutorians as the Liberal Democrats are doing. We take all decisions with the wider Hutorian people and how Hutori can prosper as a result....because when the state makes more money through business etc. it means lower prices for everyone regardless of social class and it means that every Hutorian citizen will have a higher living standard. Mr Speaker, the Hutorian government is taking every measure to ensure that all Hutorian people regardless of economic wealth, class or stature are well looked after and we wish to ensure prosperity for them all, unlike the Liberal Democrats who are now appearing to be more of a working class party rather than a party for all Hutorians like the HCP! |
| Date | 10:34:42, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Party Finance Spokesperson Mr Speaker, I cannot recall saying that the Rt Hon Viscount was a tax dodger. I was pointing out that the upper classes are unlikely to want to assist the lower classes achieve a more even distribution of wealth. What the Finance Minister has said indicates to me that this government has no interest in equality of opportunity. The government is far more interested in preserving the upper classes' wealth. We are not asking for handouts to everyone, we are asking the government to consider helping the poor better themselves. |
| Date | 11:51:33, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, the simple fact is that there will never be a situation in the world where rich and poor become equals. There are mechanisms in place to encourage people to better themselves through hard work for this great Hutorian socety and this is what the HCP prides itself upon! We would not want to see a massive welfare state where the Hutorian state has to pay out millions of HLA in taxpayers money to those unprepared to work to prosper themselves. Mr Speaker, there is a balance of power here - how can hard work not pay? There are trade unions with more than adequate powers, there are laws that permit strikes etc so there is a FAIR work system! The HCP introduced this system and we shall maintain it - not pay out millions in taxpayers money to those too lazy to use the employment system put in place by this government! |
| Date | 12:20:00, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Party Finance Spokesperson Mr Speaker, Article 1 reads "The State guarantees child benefit to families classified as low-income or poor." They are for the most part working families, it does not say this is an unemployment benefit. This is for people working on the minimum wage, and require assistance for their children. I feel that the Finance Minister has been somewhat discourtious to the working class by calling them "too lazy to use the employment system put in place by this government!" How can they better themselves when they are trapped in minimum wage jobs? |
| Date | 13:44:17, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, people should only live within their means. We believe in putting responsibility back into the hands of the Hutorian people. We will not dicate what they should or should not do like the nanny state the Liberal Democrats appear to be advocating. If people are on minimum wage jobs then why do they have numerous children if they cannot afford to do so? While we will not tell people not to have children - that is of course their own choice - we just wish some common sense was applied. Mr Speaker, working class families have a place in society, if they want to improve their lives then they must work hard to do so. We will not simply give them money to improve their lives if they have no work ethic or determination to improve their own lives. The idea we should is ludicrous! Work will be rewarded and the HCP wants to see this continues as such not simply give working class people enough money to make them middle class as the Lib Dems propose! |
| Date | 13:59:51, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Shadow Finance Minister Mr Speaker, so what I am to gather from this is that the Government actually favour a form of "selective breeding" based purely on wealth. Birth right is not a good enough reason to stop people having children Mr Speaker. Just because a person is born rich, that does not entitle them more of a right to have children. Mr Speaker, this is not a case of dictating what people should do, we are simply enabling them to do so. |
| Date | 14:05:53, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, hardly.....perhaps the Lady opposite would tell me something? If she was on a salary of 10,000HLA per year would she have numerosu children, a mortage, a car? Or would she apply some common sense and refrain from all those expenses? Mr Speaker, we grow tiresome of the Lib Dems and their pathetic "theories". Simple fact is that the HCP has just won a Parliamentary majority so we have the side of the people which is the only opinion that matters in Hutorian politics. So we will be diverting our attention away from this nonsensical welfare reform towards policies that the Hutorian people have elected us to implement. |
| Date | 14:33:49, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Shadow Finance Minister Mr Speaker, if only every Hutorian was educated to the level of the Finance Minister. That person on 10,000 HLA may already have the children, the mortgage and the car, and lose their job due to the economic climate? Mr Speaker, people do not choose to be poor, we cannot punish them for their birth! Mr Speaker, if the Finance Minister is tired, perhaps he should take a nap? The fact that only 15.11% of voters turned up at the polls tells me much more about the state of things here in Hutori. Such a poor turn-out can only be explained by the alienation of the electorate. Both our parties will need to address this disinterest. |
| Date | 14:46:14, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Finance Minister, Mr Speaker, we cannot do anything about voter turnout. If the people do not want to vote then so be it. We will not tell the people they have to vote against their will. The Liberal Democrats must now accept their position in oppostion and we in the HCP will begin to commence governing this nation once more. |
| Date | 14:50:59, May 19, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Benefits and Pension Act 3122 |
| Message | Hon Clara Brown, Liberal Democratic Shadow Finance Minister Mr Speaker, we accept our position as the opposition, and congratulate theHCP on their election success. I refuse to accept that we cannot inspire voters to return to the polls. My party has already begun campaigning for the next election, and we hope for a considerable turnout when that time comes. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |
| yes |
Total Seats: 151 | |
| no | Total Seats: 240 | |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Moderation will not implement nation renaming requests where the proposed name does not comply with the requirements set out in the Nation Renaming Guide: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6364 |
| Random quote: "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything!" - Rick Santorum |