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Bill: Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill
Details
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2145
Description[?]:
| We propose the repeal of the aforementioned international treaty. We feel it is time for a real debate over the future constitutional direction of this great nation. This current bill was made 20 years ago when values were different, parties were different, and the one party rule of the Aldurian Communists was at its height. It is time that we allowed parties to propose some of he bills that this treaty currently prevents. What gain is there to democracy and freedom if a party that existed and died over a decade ago is still able to dictate Aldurian politics as we move ever closer to the mid-point of this century. Some of you may oppose this bill because you are opposed to the idea of a monarcy. This bill's removal doesn't automatically create a monarchy in Alduria, it just gives parties that are in favour of amonarchy the right to propose that we have a monarchy. Surely that is what democracy and freedom are about? In the name of freedom and democracy, this treaty must go, because it is a direct attack on democracy and freedom. Please support. |
Proposals
Article 1
Withdraw from the An International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:59:09, November 21, 2005 CET | From | Market Socialist Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | In the name of democracy...hmmm...how is establishing a monarchy democratic? |
| Date | 15:04:39, November 21, 2005 CET | From | Aldurian Libertarian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | If the JP can gather enough support for the withdraw from this treaty, that's fine. However, I hope that no party will vote for a bill that withdra from this treaty because it recognize it as a discriminating act against the JP. The law enacted by the assembly are not the laws of the JP, they are the law of the Aldurian people. If the JP want to establish a monarchy they just have to present an strait withdrawal bill, then present a constitutional amendment. We will still vote against these bills, but it will be more respectful than claming to be discriminated against. |
| Date | 16:48:39, November 21, 2005 CET | From | Jacobites | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | To the MSP: This does not establish a monarchy, but it gives me the right to propose to establish a monarchy. That is democracy, giving people a say, currently I am denied a say, that is not democracy. To the ALSP: How can I propose to have a monarchy if there is a Treaty that prevents me from even suggesting a monarchy, that is undemocratic and discriminates against the views of a 'minority'. Perhaps these laws are the laws of the Aldurian People. However this Law was passed in June 2124, almost exactly 20 years ago. Where is the Aldurian Communist Party that proposed it? Where is the Republican Party of Aldurian that supported it? It may escape your notice but at the time Alduria was in a effective One Party State, with the Communists controlling over 3/4's of the seats. This means that five of the parties that exist today, including the two most popular, didn't have any say in the matter whatsoever. Views change overtime, and it is grossly unfair that a law made by a party that had more than 2/3's support should still be able to dictate what is and what isn't right for Alduria twenty years later. |
| Date | 19:43:12, November 21, 2005 CET | From | Jacobites | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | I have reworded the bill, but I find it odd that parties should object to the partisan nature of the bill, after all it was proposed by a party, surely it shouldn't have to have neutral wording? |
| Date | 09:54:31, November 22, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Front | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | "People can vote themselves into slavery" This puts us on to a rather philosophical debate on what freedom is... Are there limits? shall we limit freedom that we can not be unfree? is that not unfree? I'd love to wax philosophical for a while, but we see that this would not amuse many of the delegates... Well, in theory, any and all governments are equally good in that they are all capable of the same things. That is, different forms of government merely place Power (it being the contested and key element) in different areas. Whereby the efficiency, competence, legitimacy and so on of any government relies with the power base and its being as such (efficient, legitimate, et cetera...) determines how good that particular government is. Take an autocracy: one person, power over all. If this one person is good and just and fair and competent, then this transmits to the system. As do the bad traits, however... In democracy, this same goes for the entirety of the voting constituency (depending on size) which is much more difficult in some senses but then easier in others. It is possible to have a liberal and free despotism and a narrow-minded inquisitive democracy (The Ancient Aegean Tyrants among others and the U.S. at the height of the "Red Scare", respectively). Regardless, there are many mesures we like in this treaty. So we shall be voting no as we see most of it in need of safeguarding, and that the other parts do not make much difference to us. |
| Date | 11:18:37, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Jacobites | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | For crying out loud, removing this treaty doesn't remove a single one of the articles within it, it just gives any party the right to propose the articles contained within that treaty, what is wrong with that? I can't see why any party would object to allowing full political debate on all issues. It is very unfair that a Treaty passed by a party that no longer exists, and that only two of the current parties supported (although they had no seats therefore no mandate with which to support the treaty), can still restrain political debate today. |
| Date | 12:49:39, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Aldurian Libertarian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | As I said: If the JP want to establish a monarchy they just have to present an strait withdrawal bill, then present a constitutional amendment. We will still vote against these bills, but it will be more respectful than claming to be discriminated against. The new bill is more ok, although still not perfectly neutral as it would ought to be with sentences like 'one party rule of the Aldurian Communists was at its height.' Every party that emerged back in this time know that there was only one party left because of a lack of new party and not because alduria was a dictatorship. However, we will vote against the repeal. |
| Date | 12:53:46, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Aldurian Libertarian Socialist Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | This treaty protect constitutional guaranties to the people of Alduria. It was democratically enacted and, I hope, will be democratically supported once again. |
| Date | 14:06:59, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Jacobites | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | Hang on a mo, if one party controls over 50% of the seats then it is effectively one party rule, whether dictatorship or not. As to your last point you have somehow managed to not read my points. The bill is inherantly unfair, why should a bill that was made many years ago still control Alduria today? Why should a party not be free to propose what they like? Noone has come up with an argument against that last point. What gives another party the right to say,"yeah, we don't like that so we're not even going to let you propose that", why are the other parties scared of democracy? |
| Date | 14:21:43, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Market Socialist Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | The bill should still be around for the same reason the American constitution should still be around. The founders believed so strongly in what they wrote that there are certain principles that must remain a constant in all situations. These were the principles of limited government and democracy, though these principles were never actually carried out, they were the basis of our entire society. |
| Date | 17:13:17, November 22, 2005 CET | From | Jacobites | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | was that ooc, if not where is america again? Democracy is a good thing, something that should be encouraged, undemocratic treaties are a bad thing, something that should be discouraged. |
| Date | 18:17:35, November 22, 2005 CET | From | New Aldurian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Repeal of International Agreement to Prevent the Rise of Autocracy in Terra Bill |
| Message | I think we should note that we are the only country that has ratified this treaty...this is the case more than we might desire with some of these treaties. We should only bind ourselves to a course of action when other nations are willing to as well. Other than that, we have our constitution...it takes 2/3 to amend, more than it takes to repeal the ratification of this treaty. We vote to withdraw, even though we have few plans to propose a law that would change what is in our nation's legal code to be in opposition to this treaty. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 173 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 228 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Particracy does not allow role-play that seems to belong to the world of fantasy, science fiction and futuristic speculation. |
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