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Bill: Withdrawal from the Macon Union
Details
Submitted by[?]: Hutorian Conservative Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 3144
Description[?]:
| Bill to take Hutori out of the Macon Union. |
Proposals
Article 1
Withdraw from the Macon Treaty Organization of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance..
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:29:13, June 28, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, i have decided that - in my opinion - Hutori should no longer be a part of the Macon Union. It is harming Hutorian interests rather than bringing them closer. We have seen the exploitative Telamonese try and make themselves President of the Union - which we luckily managed to stop. We have seen Davostan threaten war in Narikton and drag Hutori in along with it under the provisions of the treaty. I believe this treaty is not working as we originally planned and thus i believe it is time for us to withdraw. |
| Date | 17:43:03, June 28, 2011 CET | From |  Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Frank Plowman MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, we are appalled that the Prime Minister is so quick to give up on this chance for lasting peace in Macon. It was the HCP that proposed membership in the first place, and now they are telling us that they no longer wish to play any more? How much money did the government put into this project? If the HCP was not committed, they should not have proposed entry in the first place! I urge Parliament to vote against this, in the interest of peace, and for the progress of Macon. |
| Date | 22:57:59, June 28, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, we only advocated the Macon Union because we thought it would be what the Leader of the Opposition stated it would be. The truth however is a totally different matter. I believe the Lib Dems are too idealistic and not practical enough. I have stated before in this House that the HCP are a realist party and we are not bound by a single set of beliefs. We will change our views depending on prevailing circumstances. I believe this is another instance of such an occasion and the HCP's policies can only be stopped by the people of Hutori. I believe they are disenfranchised by the Macon Pact and its false promises. That is why i believe we are justified in leaving this Pact and turning our focus elsewhere. |
| Date | 23:04:36, June 28, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Frank Plowman MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, that last statement by the Prime Minister is misleading. "we only advocated the Macon Union because we thought it would be what the Leader of the Opposition stated it would be." This implies we set this treaty up for Hutori. This is not the case at all. Mr Speaker, I hardly think the Prime Minister is justified in saying what the Macon Union's goals are when they haven't even been discussed yet. Where is the HCP Delegate? He has only attended minimal meetings, and I suspect this is because of the meddling of the Prime Minister. |
| Date | 23:11:50, June 28, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, perhaps i should clarify. We entered the Macon Pact on the premise that it could bring Macon states closer together, through trade, open borders and shared economies. However while these have been beneficial to Hutori there have been far more negatives than positives from the Macon Union. I believe that the issues such as Telamonese scheming to put themselves at the head of the Union is unacceptable. Davostan almost led a military campaign in Narikton/Darnussia on behalf of the Macon Union where Hutorian troops would have been sent do die just because the Emperor of Davostan is bored in his country! Mr Speaker, the negatives far outweigh the benefits of this pact. We signed up because we believed it would be in the best interests of Hutori. It would appear we were too idealistic at that point in history and we need to leave now - before we are dragged into something deeper by the Macon Pact. |
| Date | 00:33:06, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Imperial Party of Macon-Telamon | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Oh dear, it seems conflcit has arisen in Hutori. NIPT |
| Date | 04:08:05, June 29, 2011 CET | From | United Civic Alliance | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Adele Weiterhaußen, Leader of the Imperial Democrats, Mr. Speaker, Whatever the case, who ever is to blame, the crux of the matter is that the Union is useless to our nation. We can pin blame afterwards, but the fact of the matter is that the Union is demanding that we send our soldiers abroad to fight its wars. The NIPT must also refrain from interrupting Hutori parliamentary affairs. They are not a guest of Parliament, nor will they ever be. |
| Date | 05:32:50, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Imperial Party of Macon-Telamon | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | The Union has made no such demands and does not intend to, the Union is engaged in no foreign wars at this point, why did Hutori join in the first place, the Macon Pact was their idea. And as for the insolent Imperial Democrats, learn history, we have been a guest of parliament many times during heated negotiations. As you are still a member of the Macon Pact the NIPT is your political superior, seeing that you posses no delegates at all some deference should be shown. NIPT |
| Date | 12:38:35, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon. Timothy Owen MP, Speaker of the House of Parliament, Only Hutorian Parties have the right to speak in this House. The Telamonese have no legal basis for making speeches in this chamber. I ask them not to interfere in a Parliamentary debate which is purely on Hutorian interests and not joint interests. They may only address this House when invited to by the Monarch or Prime Minister and no such invitation has been extended to the Telamonese. |
| Date | 12:44:10, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, the Macon Union does have the right ideals. Peace, prosperity etc. however this did not translate into a practical solution. Without that there is simply no point. We have seen power grabbing from the Telamonese government. We have almost seen war from the Davostani government. This does not translate into peace and prosperity does it? It would appear it is simply a case of the same. The now untrustworthy and scheming Telamonese are busy working the Union for its own ends and the "satanic emperor" is using it as a plaything so he can wage a campaign of war in Narikton/Darnussia! Mr Speaker, the only states who havent tried to twist the union for its own ends are Hutori and Keymon! At least we treated the organisation with a bit of common deceny - but it seems that this is beyond the Telamonese and Davostanis. Mr Speaker, the only solution left is for Hutori to withdraw from this Macon Union. It is not helping Hutorian interests and is in fact harming Hutorian interests. There is no longer a benefit for Hutori to retain membership of this Treaty and i believe it would be a grave error simply to remain in this Macon Pact. |
| Date | 17:30:07, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Frank Plowman MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, this isn't a blame game. But it could be if the Macon Union turns out to be a success and this government lead us away from sharing in that success. Perhaps waiting is the best approach for now. It is not doing any harm continuing membership for now, and if it became apparent that it was no longer in our interests to remain in the union, we could leave? Mr Speaker, I know of no mechanism in place whereby our sovereignty could be put at risk from other members of the Macon Union. |
| Date | 18:08:20, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, there is no mechanism to protect our national sovereignty! The whole treaty is purposefully loose to make it a very aggressive alliance with the intent of forcibly taking over other states. The whole fact that if any nation declares war - that state is declaring war on behalf of three or four states in reality and should be able to overpower whoever they declare war upon! If we are honest, the Macon Pact is not a pact of peace. It is a pact of friendship through the potential conquering of other states! Mr Speaker, we are taking Hutori out of this alliance now and we shall move to a vote. |
| Date | 18:16:15, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Frank Plowman MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, what a ridiculous statement. "there is no mechanism to protect our national sovereignty" The existance of our army is enough to say we have protection for ourselves if needs be. I wonder what the Prime Minister's idea of an alliance is? It was always my understanding that mutual protection was a common theme of alliances. Mr Speaker, I wonder how the Prime Minister has jumped to such conclusions when negotiations have so far focused on structure and potential for expansion? |
| Date | 18:32:19, June 29, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, maybe a defence treaty if someone declares war on Hutori the Macon Pact can come to our defence but not were our military can be actively used by other Macon Union states to achieve their own ends. There is a massive difference. Whenever another state can command Hutorian Armed Forces im fairly sure that is a threat to national sovereignty. Mr Speaker, how can i jump to such conclusions? Its quite simple really. Thats because the Macon Union IS designed for expansion. |
| Date | 05:31:23, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Imperial Party of Macon-Telamon | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | is designed for expansion, then how come it is not called the Terran Union, or the Macon Empire? |
| Date | 12:50:07, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Timothy Owen MP, Speaker of the House of Parliament, How many times must the Telamonese Parties be told? They DO NOT have the right to speak in this chamber! They are not a Hutorian political party and only Hutorian political parties have the right to speak in this House of Parliament. I have yet to hear of them being invited into the House by the Prime Minister or the Monarch to speak. Until then we ask them to refrain from speaking within this House of Hutorian representatives. |
| Date | 19:05:17, June 30, 2011 CET | From |  Imperial National Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, we believe that this move by the conservative party is a dangerous one, and could result in sanctions made by the union. James Vonburg of Keymon |
| Date | 21:56:16, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, is that a threat from the Macon Union? I will personally ensure the destruction of the Macon Union if there is ever such a move made on Hutori. Furthermore sanctions will only push Hutori further away from the Macon Union when the INP wishes to have us re-join. It will create even more opposition from the Hutorian public to the Union and i think would be a grave error on the Macon Unions part. Mr Speaker, we also think this is another perfect example of how the Macon Union abuses its power in an extortionate manner - which is exactly the reason why we left and we thank the INP for simply proving our point. |
| Date | 21:57:35, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Timothy Owen MP, Speaker of the House of Parliament, It would appear that this Parliament has somehow become a forum for international discussion. How many times must it be stated that the only parties who may address this House must stand in Hutori! |
| Date | 22:10:00, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Hector James MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, I favour good relations with the Macon Union, but I will not stand by when we are threatened in this way. The Union should be reassuring us now, telling the HCP and other Parties why it would be good for us to remain in the Union. Instead what I have witnessed is threatening behaviour, and constant unauthorised interuption in this chamber. Mr Speaker, I urge the Foreign Dignitaries of the Macon Union to resolve this by negotiation with the existing delegates from Hutori, and the Foreign Minister and Prime Minister. |
| Date | 22:50:50, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Viscount Townsend MP, Hutorian Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, a short time ago i recieved this message from James Vonburg of Keymon. "Our delegates of Keymon demand a full explanation as to why Hutori is leaving the union. This explanation should be made to all members of the Union. If Hutori does not comply we will consider heavy economic sanctions and a military mobilization in defense of the Union against Hutori." Mr Speaker, we consider this unnacceptable. We have already made our views clear in this Bill and have outlined our reasons for exiting the Union. Why do they not accept that it is the democratic will of the Hutorian people? End of story! |
| Date | 22:59:00, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Optimates | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Message from the office of the Imperator and Senior Delegate from Telamon addressing the President of Keymon I do not think that will be necessary Mr President. Hutori is making official the destruction of the DMZ between Telamon and I am currently in negotiations to prevent withdrawal from occurring. If they continue to withdrawal i do see it as alarming but i am confident that with the plans that i made up with my sec of defence that there will be peace between our countries and i am confident that they would re-enter eventually or at least have perpetual peace. If tensions continue to increase a military build-up along with sanctions will be wise but as of now i do not see there is a need. |
| Date | 23:05:08, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Rt Hon Hector James MP, Leader of the Opposition. Mr Speaker, in light of the message from Keymon, I am forced to agree with the Government. I see this as a suspension of our membership until the Union matures to a point where we can safely re-enter it without fear of threats from foreign powers. Hutori is a sovereign nation, and to have the threat of military mobilisation is simply unnacceptable, and in my view completely contary to the original aims of the Union. |
| Date | 23:09:52, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Optimates | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | From the office of the Imperator: First i would like to apologize for Telamonese parties interfering in Hutori Parliment. I sent a message to show that there would be no hostility to Hutori unless Hutori is hostile to us. I would like to offer that any changes to the Pact will be made as wished if you wish to keep the Pact unified; alas, i don't think my offer will be taken with thought and i would like to say that the Macon Pact will have no hostile action done unto Hutori unless it was done out of self defence. Thank you for your time, Imperator Cornelius |
| Date | 21:39:23, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Imperial National Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | *Our update* Presidential address to the people of Keymon and the International Community First I want to say that I made no threats of war to the People of Hutori. All I stated to them was if they left the union that we would consider the possibility of a total mobilization in defense! From Hutori’s extremely sudden departure from the Union. We also proposed sanctions against the state of Hutori, if they left the Union. That is true. However, we did not threaten war against Hutori and would never do such thing the talk of mobilization was just a defense against Hutori not a move to declare war, but there leader cannot tell the difference, and will try to use everything he can to leave the union. We ask the people of Keymon and the International community to look at their motives. Thank you, James Vonburg of Keymon |
| Date | 00:07:04, July 02, 2011 CET | From | Imperial National Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | We also officially apologize for any inconvenience that might have compromised talks with Hutori and Telamon; that was never our intention and we are deeply sorry. |
| Date | 19:09:37, July 02, 2011 CET | From | Left Socialist Party | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Mr Speaker, The Left Socialist Party would like to point out that we were the only party to vote against the Macon Union treaty when it was voted on 11 years ago. Time has proven us right, and we are happy to see that all of the other parties have finally coming around to agreeing what we, in our foresight, understood in the year 3133. |
| Date | 02:57:26, July 03, 2011 CET | From | NWOIAUCFCCNUCDMFSatanilicRepublicanParty | To | Debating the Withdrawal from the Macon Union |
| Message | Hello parties of Hutori/Hutori Parliment, I come here with the most utmost respect to the government and people here. I do wish I was here during less stressful times though. I am here on the behalf of the Macon Union and as a long time loyal ally and neighbor Davostan. I hope to try to peacefully resolve some disagreements and misunderstandings that may have occurred and I apologise on behalf for some of the inappropriate comments that some other Macon Union delegates have made. Some of the Macon Union delegates were just alarmed, nervous, and frighted after the aburpt and very fast withdraw from the Macon Union with very little communication from Hutori before they withdrew from the union. Now I'll try to help clear up some of the bigger misunderstanding that I know of... First, please disregard the message from the representative from Keymon that is his own personal opinion and that message does not represent the opinions and views of the Macon Union. The Macon Union will take aggressive action if it's threated to protect it's members, but Hutori has not threated the Macon Union. Therefore the Macon Union has not nor will not take any action against Hutori. The Macon Union fully respects Hutori's sovereignty and would never threaten Hutori. There's no need, the Macon Union desires peace with Hutori. The same goes for all member nations of the union. The Macon Union seeks only peace, unity, and cooperation with member nations not war, division, and hostility. Second, I know Hutori and Telamon have had many bitter disagreements and shared hostility towards one another in the past but Telamon has not threated Hutori during their time in the Macon Union. I read the Bekenial Dispatch recently about the comments that have worried Hutori. I'll quote the Telamonese from the Bekenial Dispatch newspaper article, I quote "...plans that i made up with my sec of defence that there will be peace between our countries and i am confident that they would re-enter." What is there to worry about? It only shows that the Telamonese have made a effort for a peaceful solution by making a peace plan that happened to be written by their secretary of defence. And it was written by their secretary of defence because the Telamonese often use their secretary of defence when handling foreign diplomatic relations, many other nations do the same thing. The other Telamonese quote was, I quote "If tensions continue to increase a military build-up along with sanctions will be wise but as of now I [The Delegate from Telamon to the Union] do not see a need." obviously this was a reply to the comment that the Keymon delegate said before. Where is the problem? It shows Telamon was not in favor of a military build-up and that they wanted to wait to see if their peace plan would work. As Telamon said in their other statement. Also let me say again that it was an opinion that some had in the Macon Union and it was only suggested to do a "build-up along with sanctions" but this would not be allowed because the Macon Union was not threated or attacked. It was only suggested because some delegates were fearful after misunderstandings took place then Hutori quickly left the union with a lack of communication. Third and finally, Davostan. Yes we wanted to help the Narikaton Empire exterminate their communist bug infestation. We wanted to spread some good will to another fellow empire and to have some world wide positive publicity about Davostan. We also wanted to help the Narikaton Empire because it was going to be a easy way for the Davostan military to gain combat experience and to test new tactics and experimental weapons and we were hoping that after helping the Narikaton Empire rid them of their pests that they might return the favor and allow us to build a network of Satanic Churches in their nation to permanently destroy the communist scum and to pervent them from ever gaining a stronghold in the Narikaton Empire again. Also we waited to join the conflict until it was at prime time right before the Imperial Forces were to retake Red Stag and claim victory. If I recall correctly, It was going to be 4vs2 favoring the Imperial Forces if you count Davostan and Davostan was going to send 600,000 offensive troops. According to our calculations, that would've been more then twice enough troops to wipe out the communist scum single handily if needed to. This was purely a Davostan operation. We needed no help or aid from anyone and if we did wouldn't you think we would've brought it to the attention of the Macon Union or contacted Hutori directly. Of course we would of. Any member of the Macon Union would need to get support from the Macon Union and if some member of the Union does go crazy and tried to drag the Macon Union into unnecessary wars all the members would simply leave the union. And finally I would like to point out that the Narikaton Empire rejected Davostan's assistance before my troops even put their boots on. Hopefully this has cleared up many of the misunderstandings and that Hutori would reconsider joining back in the Macon Union. At the least your welcomed to be a observer member with limited membership privileges, so we may continue to communicate with one another with the members of the Macon Union. Let us learn from history during the time of the last Macon Union when the whole Macon continent was engulfed in war and conflict. This Macon Union does not want another Macon wide conflict. And I refuse to let history repeat itself. Give the middle finger to history and demand that we get along with our Macon neighbors peacefully. I hope you, the Hutori Parliment share this desire as well. Stand up against the mistakes of the past and to be united for a better future for the whole Macon continent. May peace be upon you, the Most Excellent and Serene Kingdom of Hutori... Satanic Emperor & Black Pope Lord Medivh Evil, Macon Union Delegate to the Most Excellent and Serene Kingdom of Hutori. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 391 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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