We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate
Details
Submitted by[?]: Union Socialism Alliance
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 3145
Description[?]:
| > Candidates >>Incumbent Chancellor: >>>>> Dark Archon Carson Vandenberghe II, DT (11th Election, 7x Chancellor, 3x [ian] Ike of the Year, 2x [ian] Minister of the Year, Former First Minister & Former Minister of Environment & Tourism) >>Challenger(s) >>>>> Miranda Lawson, USA (1st Election, 3x [ian] Ike of the Year, 6x [ian] Minister of the Year, Former Minister of Justice, Former Minister of Finance & Former Minister of Health & Social Services) Results: http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=303352 31,314,838 61.46% Miranda Lawson USA (BF, CFP, FFP) 19,435,199 38.14% Dark Archon Carson Vandenberghe II DT (SCI-LSS, SDMEP) |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 00:57:18, June 30, 2011 CET | From |  Social Democratic Party (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | I think it could be fun and I'd like to see it. It's up to DT if he wants to do it (it's up to both parties involved, but USA is obviously in favor as it's his idea). |
| Date | 04:48:59, June 30, 2011 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | How does Miranda Lawson stand on the legality of organized religion issue? |
| Date | 05:30:32, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | Organised religion has been the hot topic for some years now in Ikradon. For the better part of the 32nd century, and for a good part of the 31st as well, religion has been banned, and those who defied that law been sent to "rehabilitation centres", where families have been ripped apart, and people staying there for years. My stance, is a traditional USA stance, and for that matter, a secular centrist stance. I believe that any and all individual have the right to believe and assemble and gather to discuss their belief. I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that everyone must enjoy their freedom and right of free speech and thought. I believe that the banning of religion imposes and denies them those freedom. By banning religion, the government is telling the people what not to believe in, or telling them that they are wrong and sick, in a way. That means that the government has inserted itself in an issue where there is no harm being done, and wasting money on programs to "rehabilitate" people, where the money should be put to better use, by the power of informing the people. I will work to repeal that ban, and to get our politicians back on debating and discussing more important matters than a personal individuals believe. Things like the budget crisis, that has been neglected totally by the current Chancellor Vandenberghe II, the First Minister Steiner and his cabinet, old and new, and Minister Babel of Finance. Miranda Lawson Consul Union Socialism Alliance |
| Date | 08:49:06, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Dark Templar (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | Mrs. Lawson, If I held up a red card but told you its blue you would probably think I'm crazy. I mean obviously the card is red and to everyone else it looks like red. But what if I truly believed it was the color blue and what if I convinced a few more people that the color is blue. First, I would denying a fact and I would be spreading misinformation to the public. This is what religion does everyday and this is why it must be swept clean of our nation. Religions deny many of the things we know today as facts such as evolution, the big bang, Jesus being black. If we want to move forward as a nation we must first remove the chains of slavery that have kept us as a species tied down to these notions of false gods and magic. Freedom of religion means nothing more than allowing a disease to run rampant throughout our glorious nation. We have already proven that our rehabilitation centres work and many people have been cured and become normal functioning members in society. You say the money should be put to better use, but I can think of no better use than helping my fellow Ikradonian find a cure for his sickness. Dark Archon Carson Vandenberghe II |
| Date | 10:21:55, June 30, 2011 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | And that is why my support will remain with Chancellor Vandenberghe II. |
| Date | 14:46:48, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | It is not a sickness, and not a disease. If you told me that a red card is blue, I would think that you are wrong but I will leave you and let you believe what you will. But saying a red card is blue, is not a fair analogy, for everyone can see the red card. Religion is faith, it's something that you can't see. therefore they aren't denying a fact, for the lack of existence of one thing is not pure fact. I am an agnostic, I do not know if there is a meta-physical or para-normal world, but I'm not going to tell you that there isn't. The universe, I see it as when a child first enters a library. The child sees every book carefully put in place, organised, and in a design. That is what the universe is to me, that it is organised and designed by some power beyond our comprehension. I do not know what that power is, but I feel as if it does exist, a power that is of the universe, and that shaped the universe. As you can see, I am not misinforming nor reshaping any facts. And I am not denying any facts, for you, Chancellor Vandenberghe II haven't traveled the universe, haven't visited it's centre or edges, and cannot say that your truth is the ultimate truth. Further more, the banning of religion also means diplomatic hurdles when people of diplomats from a religious background comes to Ikradon only to be ridiculed due to his or her "disease". While we in Ikradon has been a leftist society, we rehabilitate the religious and faithfuls, while racist, fascists, imperialists and monarchists are allowed to go about their way. The point is, regardless of what I believe religion to be, I will never impose my believe on the people, as Chancellor Vandenberghe II has so precariously done over all his terms. Religion is a system of believe, and a victimless activity and no harm is being done, with the regulation we have in place. Miranda Lawson Consul Union Socialism Alliance |
| Date | 18:55:32, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Social Democratic Party (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | It is not a victimless activity when people spread it to others, which is why the SDMEP can support its being legal when it's regulated well enough to prevent such a spread, but had to oppose its legality as long as the regulations on it are too weak. Question to both candidates: Suppose, just to get your pure opinion on unions, that there were non-DWC private businesses, with unions and management, even though there are not. What would be your stand then on the rights, protections, and limitations on unions? And is it the same as your position on the public employee unions that do exist? |
| Date | 19:24:33, June 30, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | In my ideal setting, there wouldn't be any non-DWC private for-profit businesses, or at least only those that are really small, community-based businesses. Having said that, if we were in a situation like that, I still believe that there should be reasonable limitations on both sides, the unions and the employers. I'll talk about on the union side, as that is what the member of the SDMEP asked. I believe that a union should still strike when it is necessary, not anytime they like. There should be a neutral body, maybe the courts, to decide over if the strike was justified or not. Unions, are needed, in every society if it were up to me. But, unions should not be allowed to abuse their power. Citizens, children and the elderly can not and should not become victims of unions on strike for terrible reasons. And also, I still believe that workers of important sectors must assure minimum service, for the people, the children and the elderly. However, on the recent voting issue, we do believe that a majority of the votes should decide. Private businesses would do anything to stop a work stoppage, that may include the act of "buying over" or "promotion" for workers who leaves the union, or votes against the union or any such actions. In the public sector, the Government is the employer, and thus there wouldn't be, in all likelihood, these kinds of actions, as the government is set with rules, and with different departments and offices, it would be really difficult to do that. Further more, the people, the voters that are also the workers, votes them in and out. I hope to have answered the question, and the notion that it is a victimless activity, tell me how it could possibly victimize anyone? That baseless notion by the SDMEP, has yet to have substantial facts behind it. Also, I would request that the SDMEP and it's delegates to refrain from making political statement at these debates. Question your question and reply on the answer, either by agreeing or disagreeing, not propagandizing their view. Miranda Lawson Consul Union Socialism Alliance |
| Date | 03:21:07, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Marxist-Leninist Party of Ikradon (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | Would the USA work to maintain the current law on DWC's in exchange for the CFP support? |
| Date | 03:59:11, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | First and foremost, USA has always been a party that believed in compromises, in time of legislation, in time of governance. Needless to say that I am committed to compromises for the betterment of Ikradon. But, I will not change a stance on an issue to garner support or endorsement, that I will not. However, on this issue, I am inclined to agree with the stance taken by the CFP. Ikradon had it's economic revolution some 6 decades ago, with the rise of the IEF, and the shift to the right. USA at that time, was part of that shift, for a time. USA is a centrist-left party, that is widely known, but we believe that now, also, we have a large group of people pushing for free markets, even if it is in a small degree. It must be recognised that the BF and to an extent, the FFP following is a considerable size in Ikradon. And we can not simply cast aside parties, because they have differing believe. I will not do that, as I do not believe in the system of Chancellor Vandenberghe II, where he states that "left is right, and everything else shouldn't be considered." I believe that some compromise can be made, but at the core of the compromise, the interest of the workers must remain there, that it must. Therefore, I support mandatory DWC in most areas, and possibly encouraging DWCs in other areas, areas where small community business, family business or seasonal business, or even opportunity for kids, doesn't really need the DWC. Therefore, we have diversity, competition and the best interest of the workers at heart. Where one can decide to open up a family business without much trouble, while major, bigger businesses can operate without the workers being taken advantage off. Miranda Lawson Consul Union Socialism Alliance |
| Date | 10:02:12, July 01, 2011 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | "That is what the universe is to me, that it is organised and designed by some power beyond our comprehension." *yawn* *nudges this link in your direction* https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Teleological_argument#Formal_objections_and_counterarguments |
| Date | 14:12:44, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | OOC: You do know that that was IC =, yes? And the basis of the supposed rejection of the organised, the argument in itself is incoherent. Of course if you see an alphabetized bookshelf, that you think and know it was organised by someone. And, as we are on topic, consider these words: "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment. God, is a mystery. But a comprehensible mystery. I have nothing but awe when I observe the laws of nature. There are not laws without a lawgiver, but how does this lawgiver look? Certainly not like a man magnified." - Albert Einstein |
| Date | 19:30:41, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Dark Templar (LL) | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | Why would the CFP support the USA? They have played every side to try and obtain power whether it be the former IEF or the LL. Don't be another fool and let them destroy all the hard work the LL has done for Ikradon. First, we would not allow non-DWC private businesses but should this great evil return we will do everything in our power to ensure that the workers are protected. The USA wishes to strip some workers of their right to strike which we find utterly disgusting. They wish to allow people the freedom to be insane and go untreated but when it comes to the rights of the workers they clearly mean nothing to the USA. The BF was not considered for the following reasons: They want everything to become private and are a very pro-religious party. The USA wanted us to considered a cabinet without our party involved and wanted the BF in cabinet because they have a plurality for many years. DT has also had a plurality for many years and still has a fair amount of support with the people so why would we allow a party that is so drastically different from us to govern with us? It would end it chaos and would be a huge mistake politically. Is this kind of leadership we can expect from Miranda Lawson? Dark Archon Carson Vandenberghe II |
| Date | 22:09:27, July 01, 2011 CET | From | Union Socialism Alliance | To | Debating the RP: 3144 Chancellorship Elections Debate |
| Message | All the respect to Chancellor Vandenberghe II, but after 25 years of his rule, our budget has yet to be solved, the opposition was left aside by the Chancellor in cabinet talks, and, even with the SDMEP and SCILSS in the LL thanks to the DT, the communistic ideals of the past was abandoned by the LL. That is a testament that the DT is able to compromise, but only when they are threatened to be out of power. It has happened in the past, when the old-authoritarian/totalitarian SCI entered the LL for the first time. It happened when the DT accepted the SDMEP into the LL. And the freedom of everyone must be ensured, but reasonable limits could be applied. USA has always been a party of compromise, but it has also always been independent. We are willing to work with pretty much anyone, but that is case for the party to decide if a time like that comes. What I promise as Chancellor, is to find the most suitable of cabinets that the people wants, regardless if my respective party would participate or not. We need better governance, we don't need outdated Chancellor who every terms tries to ban religion. And we also don't need a Chancellor that disrespects the Parliament, by demanding that his bills be immediately voted on! What I will work for, is for a government that will bring Ikradon back to the world stage as an active cooperative partner in Terra. A government that will work to solve our budget problem. A government that will recognise freedoms, and that will compromise on issues. A government that will work for research, reviving the space agency, continue on with the court, revitalizing our infrastructure, hosting and participating internationally, push for peace but be ready for the worst, open our borders, work on our history, restructure Ikradon for the future! I am not a Chancellor that is going to solely focus on the religion issue, that I most certainly am not. Miranda Lawson Consul Union Socialism Alliance |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 426 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 180 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 144 |
| Random fact: Particracy does not allow official national flags of real-life nations or flags which are very prominent and recognisable (eg. the flags of the European Union, the United Nations, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union or the Confederate States of America). |
| Random quote: "A dictatorship is a country where they have taken the politics out of politics." - Sam Himmell |