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Bill: Abolisment of the National Civil Service
Details
Submitted by[?]: Mordusian Democratic Union
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 3321
Description[?]:
| We see no need for a national civilian service. We do not want to force our youth to join a service like that. The MDU believe that they can use those months for schooling, training or work instead. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change National service.
Old value:: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term of civilian national service.
Current: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term of civilian national service.
Proposed: There shall be no mandatory military or civilian national service.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:56:17, June 15, 2012 CET | From | Social Progressive Party of Mordusia | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | We oppose this bill. We ask the MDU where they expect the Republic to acquire the things they use? Will we return to the system where the Government contracts the private sector to produce things? Where we put tons of public money into the private sector? We promise to work to overturn both this law and the Investment law if it is passed. Since the Liberals have no concern for the Oscillation tradition with regard to paramilitaries, we will not acknowledge that tradition with regard to the damaging policies being passed by the MDU. We will offer the same bill each term until it is passed or until we will voted out of office. |
| Date | 10:11:05, June 15, 2012 CET | From | Mordusian Democratic Union | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | The NP should look forward. There is no use to maintain an expensive civilian national service. People just do not like it and are as such not motivated to join at all. This lead to poor services and dissatisfied civilians. We should not waste taxpayers money in order to fulfill ideological ideas only. |
| Date | 14:27:27, June 15, 2012 CET | From | Social Progressive Party of Mordusia | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | The National Citizens Service has saved the Republic Money. After the NSP was instituted, the Republic was able to realize almost a 10% budget cut across the board, due to efficiency, but also due to cutting out contracts to the private sector. We defy the MDU to show us where people say they do not like the NSP. Is this based on some sort of poll? What are the categories? What were the questions asked? Or is this just a HUNCH that the MDU has, observd internally, in the MDU's party leadership? I ask you, WHERE is the data to support the ludicrous claim that people do not support the NSP? Contrary to the MDU's claim about nobody supporting it, and the NSP providing poor service and dissatisfied citizens, or that it is a WASTE of taxpayer's money designed to fulfill ideological ideas, we offer a recapitulation of the program: 1) The NSP is designed to provide citizens with skills. These skills range widely over NSP programs. Much of the program deals with labor, but most of it deals with highly skilled training. The NSP works in medicine, in survey and civil engineering, in high tech, in advanced mechanics, etc etc etc. The program would be larger still if the anti-public sector forces in the Government would stop undermining it with their ideological preferences for capitalist firms over all. 2) The NSP is designed to allow people to serve the Republic in exchange for the public services they receive. In other words, for the programs they have access to, like public education, public health, as well as all the services they receive (roads, public order, police and fire, national defense, a well maintained infrastructure, and etc) they are expected to serve the nation. It is a give and take. They give three years of their life and go to school free, or get good preventative health care, or enjoy a safe nation with well maintained streets. Etc. The idea of national service as repayment for the services the nation provides to them is fairness at its core. Getting something for nothing, on the other hand, or getting something for a little bit of money paid out in taxes, is inherently unfair and does nothing at all to build a sense of pride in one's nation, or ownership of one's society. It simply makes us all consumers- We paid for it with our taxes, we expect everything to be perfect, and when it isn't we are entitled to complain. The NSP causes people to have a sense that if they want to make something better, they have to do it themselves- Reliance on the Government is reduced, because the people learn, though the NSP, more than anything, to rely on their own power and knowledge to get stuff done. 3) Seeing as how NSP personnel do not take the jobs of professional civil servants, citizen dissatisfaction is not an issue. The NSP is not responsible to take the role of the bureaucrat at the State Social Security office who tells some old lady that her benefits do not include elective liposuction. That is not the role of the NSP. They are not the public interface with the bureaucracy. They, for the most part do not deal with citizens on a day to day basis. So the concern about citizen satisfaction and quality of service rendered by the government is moot: THAT problem does not lie in the NSP, but in the expectation of a poorly informed citizenry who are trying to interact with a Government that has a schizophrenic national economic policy, and on the one hand has a bunch of laws on the books that talk about the "free market", and on the other hand, looks for every single opportunity it can to privatize services and subsidize the private sector. If you want to increase citizen satisfaction with Government, you need to stop privatizing services in the name of "free enterprise" while continuing to try to hand the keys of the national treasury to the private sector. 4) If you want to talk about a waste of taxpayer money, keep trying to privatize services. The private sector charges the government a premium for the services they render, whereas the NSP does it at cost. Same thing, different prices. Since there is no profit in the NSP's business model, and there is in the private sector's model, prices automatically go up. Simple math. I know the right hates those fact, and most of the right really has no use for facts, we understand that. But that is how it shakes out. So if you want to spend public money to underwrite the profit margin of the private sector, it is silly for you to pin our support for the NSP on "ideology." You demonstrate a reverse, and pathologically stronger commitment to state-underwritten capitalism by seeking to undermine it. |
| Date | 14:31:16, June 17, 2012 CET | From | Mordusian Democratic Union | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | Our response is as follows: Our youngster dislike to join your beloved NSP because it's a sort of forced labour. They prefer to study or to apply for a proper job. It's a waste of time and money with just little results. 1. Skills? There is a better alternative: regualr education will provide those skills 2 and 3.That's just an assumption. The state knows what has to be produced..... The mDU doesn't believe in that. 4. The NSP is a relic from the past. Individuals should be allowed to choose whether to join your NSP or not and that result will be predictable. |
| Date | 16:00:17, June 17, 2012 CET | From | Social Progressive Party of Mordusia | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | A relic from the past? The NSP is less than 20 years old! It is ironic that the MDU calls the NSP a relic from the past, when they propose the return of the system which existed BEFORE the NSP was instituted. They are calling for a return of the status quo ex ante, which is a system from EVEN FARTHER in the past than the NSP. I see NO bills coming from the MDU expanding access to education, not higher education, not secondary and primary education. To cloak your ideological interest in a so called concern for regular education is rather facetious, don't you think? Clearly this bill is supported for exclusively ideological reasons. The vote break down is clear. The supporters of capitalism in the Governing Parties make their ideological predilection obvious. They support capitalism, regardless of the damage it does to people's lives. They have an ideological commitment to advancing the interests of the rich against the interests of the society, and against the interests of the people. Let's call it what it is. You people want to hand the National Treasury back to the profiteers in the private sector who think only of their own benefit. but certainly not the benefit of the country as a whole. Let's be honest here. |
| Date | 16:04:02, June 17, 2012 CET | From | Social Progressive Party of Mordusia | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | Scratch the comment on education. We just voted on the bill for education offered by the MDU. The other comments still stand... OOC: Honest mistake. My fault for the oversight. |
| Date | 03:46:14, June 18, 2012 CET | From | Social Progressive Party of Mordusia | To | Debating the Abolisment of the National Civil Service |
| Message | We hope that the Government is prepared to pay the premium for the goods and services they require. The NSP has shown what not for profit administration of programs cost. The Private sector knows our budget. This will be their STARTING point. They will add their profit onto the top of that. The private sector will get their piece of the pie whether or not it hurts anyone in the process. Also, we hope that the government is prepared to explain to the thousands of government workers this bill and it's murder, yes, I said murder, because it cannot be described as anything else except premeditated and conspired killing of the NSP-- we hope that the Government is able to explain to the thousands of NSP workers who are losing their jobs and the millions of youth who are losing their job training, just why it is important to hand these jobs to capitalism. This bill is poorly thought out, it ends the NSP immediately and leaves the government without a procurement method. Good job, you over zealous capitalists. Our government is about to grind to a screeching halt in the matter of a couple months, and the NPP will be the only Party with the foresight to stand up against this nonsense. The Governing parties are directly responsible for the increase in unemployment in this Republic, as well as thd loss of valuable job training. We hope your donors reward you well. They will be getting what they pay for: a government which can't do anything because it is handicapped by its own opponents within the system is just more evidence in support of their only argument, which is that government can do nothing right. A self fulfilling theory. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 505 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 133 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 50 |
| Random fact: In cases where players have failed to clearly and accurately reference their nation's RP laws in the "Bills under debate" section, Moderation will rule them invalid if a challenge is made to their validity. |
| Random quote: "When I see a 9/11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, "Oh shut up" I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining." - Glenn Beck |