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Bill: P. 8
Details
Submitted by[?]: Republican Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 3340
Description[?]:
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Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy toward marriage.
Old value:: The government only recognises civil marriages between a man and a woman.
Current: The government allows all consenting adults to obtain civil marriage contracts.
Proposed: The government does not involve itself in marriage or civil unions.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 22:48:07, July 24, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We as a society must honor the traditional definition of marriage. The traditional definition of marriage spells clearly the function of a family and emboldens the establishment. Marriage has a purpose, and it is for the establishment of families that will supply Rutanians with healthy men and women until the end of time. Opening the gates to perverts will devalue marriage. And when marriage is devalued, morality and citizenship will corrode, and we will have to resort to big government for what was once called parental guidance. Alfred Blackwater D. Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 05:58:41, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The so called "slippery slope" that the OCPS is consistently referring to must include various factors in order to make it considerable, otherwise the theory itself is and could as well be proven to be a fallacy. By allowing certain social prohibitions, the society is already reliant on the big-government social engineering techniques. The government shall not, especially in a democratic and free society, define what is to be moral and immoral. Furthermore, such decisions are up to the people to decide. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 17:19:59, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, A government that is blind to the distinctions between what is moral and what is not is a government that should be feared. Rutania does not have that sort of government. A case in point: we have laws against murder, rape and even the dissemination of false information. The argument that government should be blind to morality is null, not to mention facile. Marriage is not simple a choice for people to decide. It is a foundation of society. Marriage is everyone's business no matter how many times fantasists shut their eyes and ears and chant that marriage is an entirely private matter. Its stability is something that must be protected; its continuity is one that must be encouraged. Allowing homosexuals to barge in on a sacred tradition for the sake of their self-esteem will devalue marriage. It will devalue the marriage and that is a fact. The institution of marriage was created to celebrate and to uphold the family. By letting homosexuals in the gates, marriage now simply means a contract between to people who like each other. It is not. It is a contract between a man and a woman to create a family of their own and to nourish that family. A well nourished family is good for society and that is a fact. This being the case, it is simply vandalism to erase the distinction between the celebration of family and a union between people who happen to like each other. Despite not having marriage contracts, there is nothing to prevent homosexuals from living with each other. Their lifestyle is not illegal: it is just not recognized, as the way it should be. Alfred Blackwater D. Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 23:20:34, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I ask the honorable gentleman to differentiate between racial segregation and the current topic we are debating. The OCPS is asserting excessively generalized opinions that are not even accepted by the majority within the scientific community and attempting to use them in an intellectual debate. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 03:49:20, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Nobody brought up the topic of racial segregation but the Republicans. And funnily enough it is the Republicans who keep moaning about the OCPS making digressions. To to drag racial segregation into the debate and claim that that dragging up is the fault of some one else indicates two things: One, the Republicans are mentally incompetent and cannot analyze with any discernible fidelity to reality the arguments of their opponents. And two, the Republicans are putting up red herring to distract Parliament from noticing the Republican's inability to back their arguments with substance - a waste of energy really since everyone in this house can observe the Republicans bumbling incompetence all too clearly. Furthermore, Republicans seem hell bent on ignoring the fact that stable marriage creates stable families and stable families are the nourishment of good citizens and good citizens are the backbone of any country that aspires to be free. This fact entails very strongly that marriage must be protected from the assaults of resentment. Homosexuals have nothing to gain by marriage contracts except the complications of divorce, and this is because marriage was created to lock a man and a woman together so they can raise their offspring in a healthy environment. These facts are proven by both scientific research and tradition. The Republicans should take that in their pipe and smoke it. Alfred Blackwater D. Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 04:38:30, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I would like to rebuke the OCPS' argument on how we are unable to refute their arguments since they are the ones who clearly can't publish a single scientifically accepted fact to the parliament. And we still are waiting for the answer to my question from the honorable gentleman. It seems that they are seeking to elude from their own incompetent arguments. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 18:00:07, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The Republicans need only to look at bill “P.7” and look at the OCPS's arguments, there one will see that homosexuals are indeed significantly more inclined to pedophilia and make bad parents. But the Republicans will ignore this again, won't they? Furthermore, that the Republicans are claiming they asked us a question when clearly no issuance from the Republicans ever took form as a question again puts to light the mendacity of the Republican Party. The Republicans need lies because they cannot stand on their own two feet, and that its because they have no legs to stand on at all. They are on the losing side of this argument. Marriage should only be reserved to heterosexuals since it was created for heterosexuals and it benefits homosexuals not at all. All homosexuals can get out of marriage is a marriage contract and the complications of divorce. Homosexuals do not need marriage. Heterosexuals need marriage. Why should this purely heterosexual need be invaded by the resentment of homosexuals and the fantasies of the Republican party? Here are some articles to enlighten the Republicans on the importance of marriage: http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_1_marriage_gap.html and http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_1_why_we.html/ and most especially this third one http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_3_gay_marriage.html Hopefully that will enlighten the Republicans as to the importance of marriage, why it should be preserved and defended, and why homosexuals do not need it. Of all the debates regarding the egregious Republican laws, the OCPS has provided the most constructive arguments while the Republicans provided nothing and moaned about the same thing over and over again. It is the Republicans eluding from the argument, not the OCPS. Just look how the OCPS supported its statements and compare that to the Republican Party. The Republicans constantly lied, brought up red herrings and refuse to address the salient points the OCPS has brought up. Alfred Blackwater Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 22:15:53, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The OCPS can claim their rhetoric to be correct as much as they wish but they are simply forgetting the fact that they are clearly lost on which topic they are debating on. We are not debating the morality and important of marriage, but debating to withdraw the excessive government intervention on our social lives. http://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/259799/gay-marriages-more-successful-than-straight-ones/1.html We can continue listing our references forever, but still won't prove why debating the morality of same sex marriage is legitimate for this proposal. We've supported our arguments in our previously passed laws, and it's time for the OCPS to think more logically on the idea of fundamentally liberty and the natural rights that the Rutanians ought to own and protect. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 02:03:15, July 27, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Again the Republicans prop up their losing, false arguments with articles from a fashion magazine and a pseudo-scientific website (whose article, by the way, is not research but speculation). Talk about fraudulence. Since the Republicans are so concerned about liberty, we shall give them this: Stable families instructs its members on morality and citizenship. When families do this, government intervention becomes unnecessary. When the stability of families is shunted aside and finally disappears, there shall be no one to keep citizens moral and the government will have to establish order in a massive scale. This is why children in unstable, single and homosexual families are inclined towards drug-use and gang violence, and ultimately the police points its guns at them. This is not liberty despite the Republicans claiming it to be. The Republicans are short-sighted; they cannot see these inevitable consequences of making marriage mean nothing. Marriage is far more than two people who like each other living together, it is a contract for the establishment of a stable family. Time and again children from biological heterosexual parents are healthier, more intelligent and more successful than children living under abnormal parentage. Some small sacrifice of liberty must be made in order to preserve the larger and essential parts of liberty. The Republicans ought to recognize this fact and get their priorities straight. Alfred Blackwater, Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 04:33:11, July 27, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We've never questioned the importance of marriage, but questioned the government's restriction on equal marriage. The OCPS is clearly forgetting the common occurrences of failed marital relationship among heterosexual couples. Let me make myself clear to the OCPS for a final time that includes the context of our debate we've prolonged until now on this and other bills as well: We are debating about the legitimacy of the governmental power in our social lives, not whether things are moral and immoral. Basing the logic upon morality is not only dangerous, but it undermines the very foundation of individual liberty. Since I don't think that the OCPS fully understand how liberty is defined as and continues stick-fast to their stance, I see these debates going nowhere and I predict that it won't even if we are to have series of additional debates. The bill is passed and now is part of the laws of the land. If the OCPS wishes to overturn this law, they must do so by earning the popular vote, just like how other repeals are processed. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 20:54:57, July 28, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 8 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Because marriage occupies a special and honored place in civilization, it can never be subject to experiments of equality. Furthermore, marriage was taken seriously in the past and during those times divorces were rare. But now the government slackened divorce laws and gave citizens the impression that they can divorce their spouses at a whim. They no longer consider marriage a binding contract; couples no longer consider disagreements as something that must be overcome but rather as legitimate grounds for ripping the family apart. Part of this deterioration of marriage was caused by society's and, society's arm, the state's compliance to the sophistry of libertines which demanded that marriage be taken out of its special and well-deserved pedestal and be flung to homosexuals and whoever else wants who wrap its perversions with the legitimacy that marriage’s prestige provides. Such a thing should never be entertained. The government has a legitimate right to intervene in matters of marriage because marriage is a privilege, just like a driver's license, and should only be granted to those who can fulfill its fundamental requirements – the creation and the proper upbringing of children in order that they become worthy citizens. The OCPS knows what liberty is, how liberty is defined, the and the various kinds of liberties and the intrinsic worth of each liberty and how each liberty acts upon another. The Republicans know only the dictionary definition of liberty and believes that from that definition all liberties must be good; in short, the Republicans' have a child's view on liberty: to let people do what they will even if the consequences should in the long run corrode the very liberties they stand on. Such is not liberty; it is libertinism, and it is an idiocy, which is probably why the Republican's support it in the first place. And lastly, the OCPS has every right to expose in Parliament the incompetence and puerility of the Republican party. Alfred Blackwater, Leader, OCPS |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 527 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 72 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: "Treaty-locking", or ratifiying treaties that completely or nearly completely forbid any proposals to change laws, is not allowed. Amongst other possible sanctions, Moderation reserves the discretion to delete treaties and/or subject parties to a seat reset if this is necessary in order to reverse a treaty-lock situation. |
| Random quote: "The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people." - Noam Chomsky |