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Bill: P. 9
Details
Submitted by[?]: Republican Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 3340
Description[?]:
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Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The governments stance on religious schools.
Old value:: Any religion may set up a school, but they are strictly regulated.
Current: Any religion may set up a school, with no regulations.
Proposed: Any religion may set up a school, with no regulations.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 22:50:53, July 24, 2012 CET | From |  Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, What then will prevent a group of people from a making up a perverse "religion" from creating a school and claiming that orgies are part of its curriculum because it is commanded by their "religion"? The thought of its is absurd. A. Blackwater OCPS D. Leader |
| Date | 05:49:45, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, People simply have the choice to attend such schools. The government's role is to uphold liberty not to withdraw the responsibilities for the Rutanians to make their own choices. How is the idea of government limiting choices for the citizens solely due to their moral views more logical than allowing the schools to "teach" their side of the views upon the people who "chooses" to be taught on such beliefs? Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 17:06:44, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The Republican Party's idea of government responsibilities is infantile. Government was created not to uphold liberty, but to constrain unnecessary and harmful liberties for the good of all. If we were all so hung up on liberties we wouldn't have created a government at all. While choice is necessary for a democratic and free government to function, allowing cults to form and indoctrinate generations of young Rutanians is a choice that would erode the very foundations on which liberty depends. It will corrode morality and respect for the law, because then the law would harbor the antics of lunatics at the expense of decent, sane citizens. Alfred Blackwater Deputy Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 23:30:21, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The OCPS' argument that implies utilitarianism emphasizes that Rutania should run by the majority rule. We all know that such methods would decimate the very foundation of our democratic rights, including the protection of the minorities. As I've mentioned in other bills, the responsibility to decide on whether certain things are moral and immoral are up to the people to decide. If we are to allow and legitimize liberty, there musn't be any exceptions, otherwise the government may use such reasons to expand its power in the name of utilitarianism. The OCPS should review the definition of liberty and which factors breaches it that degrades its values. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 04:02:05, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, If other people are to be harmed by someone's irresolution between right and wrong, then that someone should not be given the chance to do what's wrong, since it harms other people's rights to live in peace, a right which the Republicans constantly ignore. What is more important, the right of a confused individual to plod through a decision, or the right of everybody else to live unmolested by lunatics and morally weak people? Allowing cults to form and do as they please undermines religious liberty because it turns religious liberty into a joke. The Republicans did not account for that did they? They do not account for the fundamental dignity of the law, the dignity that makes people respect the law and what it protects, namely the rights of others. If one small liberty is taken away to protect the larger liberties, that is the only way it could ever be. We are running a country, not a fantasy island. Alfred Blackwater D. Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 04:44:27, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, It is not a surprise that the OCPS admitted that taking away the liberty from the people are immaterial to run a country. I still can't fully understand how the idea of giving the people the right to chose how they would live so difficult for my counterpart to comprehend. Since the OCPS is so worried about the slippery slope fallacy, I would ask this question: how are they so certain that taking away one small liberty wouldn't lead to a totalitarian state? The gentleman from the OCPS talk about running a fantasy island and I would like for him to do the exact thing because liberty is always valued in Rutania and not traded for government-led favoritism. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 18:15:07, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The Republicans are twisting the words of the OCPS - it's just like them to resort to trickery and illusions: they do not have a leg to stand on. The Republicans refuse to recognize the fact that we do not live in a utopia and sacrifices will be made, and we have only to set our priorities straight, a skill in which the Republicans are woefully lacking and cannot understand. Preserving the dignity of the law is essential because that dignity is preventing anarchy by contempt. Liberal laws, like the ones the Republicans proposed, will legitimize the preposterous, which in turn will make preposterous all that is legitimate - and down comes all the consequences this entails. Why do the Republicans ignore this? To accept this fact is necessary for any civilized people to flourish. And again, the Republicans are taking an overly simplistic view of the matter. Taking away small liberties - like making a cult and mutilating yourself for it - will not lead to totalitarianism because taking away such unnecessary liberties is supported by morality and common sense. Nobody supports the freedom of cults to prosper except lunatics and their parliament dogs, the Republicans. Alfred Blackwater Leader, OCPS |
| Date | 21:48:09, July 26, 2012 CET | From | Republican Party | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The OCPS talk about magnifying an overly simplistic matter, when they were the ones who were provocative regarding the slippery slope. As I now repeat, after serious of numerous reiterations, legitimizing and illegitimizing moral views are up to the states and the people to decide and allowing the government to decide on the social issues would consequentially lead to the oppression of the minority rights. If the OCPS can't grasp onto this simple logic, then they don't have a simple logic to legitimize the free market system as well. I see no point of resuming this debate since the OCPS consistently evades the fundamental aspect of the debate and continues with their rhetoric in highly derogatory manner. Gerard Wesly, Republican Leader. |
| Date | 02:16:41, July 27, 2012 CET | From | Ominous Cabal of Patrician Statesmen | To | Debating the P. 9 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Some decisions are too dangerous - allowing the flourishing of cults and paramilitary forces for example - and they should be outlawed. It does not oppress any minority rights, saying it does is just putting up a red-herring. Allowing them to flourish is insanity and poses a danger to everyone, but Republicans constantly ignore these very real risks because their miniscule ideological map does not permit it. The establishment of paramilitary groups cannot just be left "for the people to decide" and neither is institutionalized cultism. There are just some things that should not be left to chance - we are a civilization and not an anarchy. Some decisions should be left to the people and some to a force than encompasses all the people. Yes, the Republicans may be new to the idea, but the world is complex and has many different sides to it and requires many complex problem-solving and priority setting. Simplistic one-size-fits-all solutions do not work. The Republicans should step into the thresh-hold of maturity and broaden their mental horizons beyond their simplistic adolescent beliefs. Alfred Blackwater Leader, OCPS |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 135 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 464 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Selucia is Particracy's modern take on Ancient Rome, located on the continent of Majatra. |
| Random quote: "If we were to wake up some morning and find that everyone was the same race, creed and color, we would find some other causes for prejudice by noon." - George Aiken |