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Bill: The Valruzian Offer
Details
Submitted by[?]: Imperial Aristocratic League
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 3411
Description[?]:
| Debating the Valruzian Empire's attempt to purchase colonies of the Luthorian Empire. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 03:53:35, November 29, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Aristocratic League | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The Imperial-Libertarian Alliance seeks to open up a discussion about the possibility of selling a small section of our colonial holdings to the Valruzian Empire. Our colonial holdings are vast and thus it is a strain on the Empire's armed forces defending them and putting down native resistance. While the resources we have aqcuired from these holdings of no doubt provided Luthori with great wealth, we feel that a discussion or debate, is indeed needed. The ILA believes that, for the right price, Luthori should indeed sell a small portion of its colonies. Not only would we be lessening the affect of the strain it takes on are armed forces but we also would gain a valuable friend, and a fellow monarch, in the Valruzian Empire. We seek the opinions of out friends in the Labor Party and the ICA. I Yield Imperial Seal Bearer and Lord Privy Seal Arthur Price. Duke of Utagia. |
| Date | 17:13:34, November 29, 2012 CET | From |  Luthorian Democrats | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Once more this is evidence of the ILA's desire to weaken Luthori, and eventually cause its downfall. This is simply a further attempt to have Luthori absorbed into the AU. Valruzia is one of the most unstable countries of Terra. While we applaud the fact that they have adopted a monarchy we believe that relations can be maintained with them through the IML rather than by selling territory to them. I yield. |
| Date | 16:34:36, November 30, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Party (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Whilst we cannot concur with the Labour Party's theory on an attempt to join the Artanian Union, we believe our allies at the ILA are just not informed enough to know that the Valruzians are merely grabbing for power which will weaken the Holy Luthori Empire. As for the ILA's reasoning behind selling the colonies, we believe that you are entirely wrong. The Imperial Colonies have not rebelled, resisted or at all had an important Independence movements. As for the strain on the Imperial Armed Forces, that is absolutely wrong. We in the Imperial Conservative Party are prepared to launch a massive military reform in the coming months, the Army, Navy and Air Force are ineffective and have for sometime been second fiddle. We plan on working with the Imperial General Staff. We would like to make mention we do not appreciate insults from our allies in the ILA. We are ranking members of the Privy Council, we are not "low-ranking" as so quoted. I yield. James Vipond, Secretary of State for the Colonies, His Majesty's Privy Council. |
| Date | 22:43:25, November 30, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Aristocratic League | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, \The ILA is not at all surprised by the oppositions stance here. We know both the Labor Party and the ICP are strong supporters of the Empire, a position which we fully support ourselves however we will make an effort to make a couple points. The Labor Party mentions maintaining relation with Valruzia through the IML. We would like to point out to the Labor Party that the IML is an organisation which at the present, has very little influence. Its once strong leadership has left and only a mere skeleton of what it once was is still there. While we support Luthori\'s continued presence in the IML the ILA seeks stronger ties with fellow like minded nation such as the Empire of Valruzia. The Labor Parties continued isolationism to international affairs is very dis-appointing. We also would like to make clear to the ICP that the ILA does not seek to sell off all the colonies. We merely seek to sell of a small insignificant portion of our vast holdings. And while we applaud the efforts of the ICA to re-organize the colonies and the armed forces they would be foolish to think that having such far flung possessions does not cause strain both in the budget, the cost to maintain and govern them, and in terms of keeping a constant military presence. We also apologies for the comments made toward the ICP. We meant no disrespect toward the ICP however with zero influence in the Diet the ICP does have a minimal affect on governing. I Yield OOC: Trying to be realistic with our colonies here. Having such large areas would indeed have caused problems for any nation. So while there have not been any RP efforts towards having unstable colonies there defiantly would be problems holding such a vast empire together. Also feel free to post on the forums, wouldn\'t mind having another Luthori player on there. |
| Date | 12:53:11, December 01, 2012 CET | From | Luthorian Democrats | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Luthori was the most powerful country on Terra at one point. Now after years of all this libertarian nonsense - which has witnessed the collapse of social mobility, equality, the health and education system, as well as welfare - we have played no role in international affairs for years and now the largest party wants to sell off some of our territorial assets! We are extremely concerned with the direction the ILA wants to take Luthori. We in the Labour Party would are most willing to work hand-in-hand with the Conservatives to prevent the loss of our territorial assets and to ensure that our sovereignty is not stolen by bureaucrats in the AU. I yield. OOC: Britain - while at the time was powerful was also very small - managed to maintain for a decent period of time the largest empire the world has seen. Its territorial assets weren't nearby either - Canada, territories in the US, Australia, New Zealand, a large proportion of Africa, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and other parts of Asia. So claiming that having a large empire would cause problems isn't exactly true, especially when as the ICP points out there have been no independence movements in any of the colonies. |
| Date | 16:41:41, December 01, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Luthori's colonies have been and will remain under his Majesty's great empire. We are the last force between anarchy and order in Terra now that our allies have fallen. We must remind Valruzia that if they wish to call themselves a monarchy, and wish to be considered one by the IML, which may I remind everyone is based here in our nation. That they need to obey the IML Code, which states quite clearly: "Monarchs shall never fight monarchs!!!" So if they are threatening us with military retaliation if we fail to comply with their demands then we should take it to the IML. All that being said, because they are a fellow monarchy, and we can understand the desire for colonies for an empire badly need of resources: 1) We lease several trading ports and military ports for them to use as bases of operations in the area. They will be able to manage the base as they see fit, however they will have no jurisdiction outside of the bases. Much like any Embassy does in a country. We can set it up that every 99 years they must be renewed, and because we are the "Mother of Monarchs" we will allow the them to only have to pay every 99 years with no interest. 2) We state that if they desire to bring order to one of the rebellious territories on Dovani (OOC: Luthori claim for the entire land still stands, with the exception being what Husltria and Kazulia claim, due to Dove claiming it all for Luthori when he discovered it.) That we will not only help fund the expedition, but we will send in a Legion to help them do so!!! Thus we avoid weakening ourselves, and at the same time we allow a fledgling child blossom into a new power in which we can work with to help maintain order in this new era. I yield. |
| Date | 22:58:45, December 01, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, After investigating our current state of affairs, which due to the failure of this countries leadership as of late has allowed Terra to forget who it serves, we propose another compromise offer we should make. 1) The colony known as Caltropic Lakes (OOC: Which was actual a joint territory held under Commonwealth Status with Husltria, which I am guessing due to their collapse has transferred to us completely) be sold to the Valruzian delegation on the following agreements. a) Two military ports and one Trade port (one of each being located in the capital city on the Coast) be kept under Luthori ownership. This is a simple way for us to keep a presence in the area, while not having to rule over an entire territory to do so. b) That three of Luthori's 10 military bases throughout the colony be allowed to stay under Luthori control. These bases for the first 99 years shall be allowed to function for free. Afterwards the Luthori government may close one every time the deal comes up for resigning to get another 99 years free for the two bases or one base remaining. Finally, after there is only one base left the Luthori government shall pay the Valruzian government a nominal fee every 99 years to use the military base they have left in the territory. c) That all noble estates be kept in tack and under the ownership of the nobles that own them. These estates do not take up tons of land and of course will continue to pay the taxes that are deemed to be need by the administration. Under the agreement of course that the estates are not seized by the Valurzia government or taxed into obliteration. d) That while on any land administrated (Military ports/bases and Trade port) by Luthori that Luthori laws apply. e) That the Luthori military in times of war may use the territory to move its troops. Under these conditions we feel it would be appropriate to sell the colony for reasonable price. This colony being one of the least populated and least used by empire due to it still being a newly acquired domain, is prime property and is a fitting solution to our problem. We yield. |
| Date | 02:55:46, December 02, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The following is what has been offered by the government of Valruzia: "I'll take the southern half and the small island if that's acceptable, and I'd like to lease the northern part with similar conditions to those that you outlined for Caltropic Lakes. However, after 200 years, I would like to have complete ownership of the entire island, minus several overseas military bases that Luthori may have left behind. To simplify: -Total control over the south, and the small island. -Lease parts of the North, based on Caltropic Lakes outline* (See above for outline) -After 200 years, Tropica will become Valruzian. Traces of Luthori, such as trading areas, and military bases will be allowed to remain -After 300 years, we will be able to request removal of Luthori presence from Tropica. This includes all military presence. Tropica will become a sovereign colony under the total control of Valruzia, with no additional influence or concessions involving Luthori." We are in full agreement with the selling of the southern half. A part that until very recently was not a part of the Empire. However the sale of Princedom Philipi is another story. That has long been a territory of our Empire, dating back even before Reinhard the Magnificent (I). As such, we cannot simply agree to such a settlement of the northern half even on such terms as offered. However, we believe progress has been made and seek that we counter propose with the following offer. -Total control over the south, and the small island. -Lease parts Caltropic Lakes as was outlined before -After 200 years, Caltropic Lakes will become Valruzian. Traces of Luthori, such as trading areas, and military bases will be allowed to remain -After 300 years, we will be able to request removal of Luthori presence from Caltropic Lakes. This includes all military presence in side the country. Luthori will be allowed to maintain military port located off the coast of the capital of the Caltropic Lakes on an island base that is to be constructed starting the year this agreement is signed. -Caltropic Lakes will become a sovereign colony under the total control of Valruzia, with no additional influence or concessions involving Luthori. So in conclusion, we will sell the southern half of Tropica (a land that has not traditionally been under our rule), and we will over a period of 300 years transfer control of Caltropic Lakes to the Valruiza government. This counter proposal protects our traditional colony in the Northern Tropica and it allows us to try and come to an agreement with the Valruzian government. While we will be the first to stand firm and push for the maintaining of Luthori supremacy, we feel this deal will benefit both sides of this debate. We yield. |
| Date | 06:06:47, December 02, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Aristocratic League | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The ILA fully supports the proposed agreement. We are pleased to see a compromise that benefits both sides and congratulate the INA on their hard work. I Yield. |
| Date | 12:16:23, December 02, 2012 CET | From | Luthorian Democrats | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We will oppose any such transferal of territory from Luthori to Valruzia. I yield. |
| Date | 18:02:39, December 02, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Party (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Honorable Gentlemen, While the Imperial Conservative Party and my administration in the Department of the Colonies is outright opposed to the transfer of colonies, the selling of these minor colonies will not negatively effect Luthori and will bolster out relationship with another monarchy. With the return of a prestigious political group such as the Imperial Noble Alliance who has been a vanguard of this nation for a long while, we believe that this selling and transfer of colonies is sufficient. The Department of the Colonies will sign and begin the process to do this seeing as it is solely our job. I yield. James Vipond, Secretary of State for the Colonies. |
| Date | 22:38:33, December 02, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, His Imperial & Most Excellent Majesty, the Emperor, has charged me to bring before this esteemed body the final charter for this transaction. As an old guard of this country I pledge that the final and minor details of this agreement will reflect the the out stated above. Thus it with the approval of the Emperor and what it appears to be a majority of this body that I, as Prime Minister of the Holy Luthori Empire and Lord President of the Privy Council, shall move on to the next stage of drafting the final version of this deal. When negotiations are complete, I will send the final draft to the Department of the Colonies to be written and presented to this body of noble men and women of the Realm for their approval. It is my by my oath of loyalty to this empire and our Emperor, that I promise to succeed in this task that I have been appointed to carry out. Lords and Ladies of this Holy Diet, we will bring this transaction to a healthy and successful conclusion, where the end results makes Luthori stronger and ready to tackle the challenges that are spreading around the Terra like wildfire. I yield. Prince Henry d'Orange-Villayn, Prince of Mordus, Prince-Imperial of the Holy Luthori Empire & of Alduria, Prime Minister of the Holy Luthori Empire, & Lord President of the Privy Council |
| Date | 22:50:45, December 03, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Aristocratic League | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, With the collapse of the Labor party the ILA hopes to see a final proposal drafted and approved shortly after the upcoming election. Seeing as all noteworthy opposition is gone we expect quick passage through the Diet. We thank all parties involved and look forward to a strong relationship with the Valruzian Empire. I Yield His Grace Arthur Price Imperial Seal Bearer Lord Privy Seal Duke of Utagia |
| Date | 03:15:57, December 15, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Aristocratic League | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | OOC: Archiving. |
| Date | 04:20:32, December 15, 2012 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the The Valruzian Offer |
| Message | OOC: First draft of Treaty my be found here: http://classic.particracy.net/viewtreaty.php?treatyid=2349 |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 649 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Zardugal is a nation based on the old Byzantine Empire, with a modern twist and the Esperanto language. Zardugal is located on the continent of Majatra. |
| Random quote: "To retain respect for sausages and laws, one must not watch them in the making." - Otto von Bismarck |