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Bill: Obnovenie
Details
Submitted by[?]: Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS)
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 3465
Description[?]:
| Restoration: Returning our ancient cities to their proper names. All cities (except for Naban in Alazinder) are replaced with the following: In Darali: Čachtice Dolinka Hradnice Tepesovo In Alazinder: Královice Ludmělník Branovice In Ushalande: Sfântul Sângeorz Nădejdeni Ştefăneşti Bălgrad In Dissuwa: Feketevár Kéjencvár Szenvedésvásárhely Sörpatak In Doron Akigo: Hadjod Hadsingojer Ȝeomorceaster Cƿæþburh |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:35:33, April 03, 2013 CET | From |  Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS) | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: I am not sure I understand why people here are so opposed to restoring the well-established Deltarian culture. It definitely makes us unique in Terra. |
| Date | 14:54:41, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Interim National Democratic Congress | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: how about a semi-czarist state like we proposed, the Commonwealth. Plus, you're removing more elements of gameplay at the end of the day. |
| Date | 15:30:02, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS) | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: I was complaining more about the fact that the languages and history of Deltaria have been completely ignored for the past 300 IG years or so. Of course Deltaria does not have to be a Czardom by definition, but it would be great if people paid more attention to the work of previous players regarding culture and history. More to the point, I don't see why renaming the cities to something more culturally accurate would generate hostility and opposition, especially since they have absolutely no effect on game mechanics. Regarding a compromise solution, sure, I am open to finding a mutually acceptable settlement, as long as it is integrated within the established culture. I would not be against a constitutionally limited monarchy, as long as it is unmistakably Slavic-based and maintains some continuity with previous RP. A Commonwealth would be far too British for what is Particracy's Slavic nation par excellence. I would, for instance, be ok with the Mathias family becoming a major noble family, but only as long as it is at least partially Slavicized (for example, renaming the family as Matúš). |
| Date | 16:35:19, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Svoboda Partija Kontr-Revoljucionerov | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | Ah, the return of Čachtice! |
| Date | 16:56:36, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS) | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | Yep, good old Чахтице. |
| Date | 17:27:21, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Interim National Democratic Congress | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: For the past 2 or 3 IG centuries, Deltaria has been anglicized. I'm personally not interested in Slavic culture. I'm not saying that it's not interesting but at the moment I haven't heard anything really amazing about it. Maybe there is something of the sort, of which I'm not aware of. But if you're telling other players that they have to go Slav just 'coz previous players created this culture, I disagree. Yes, we can join together both of these in-game culture maybe some Anglic-Slavic hybrid, culture wars, etc. but returning back to unrealistic pure Slavic (that only one Slavic language, how about Russian, they're kind of fine for me). A few jokes here and there are fine, but it shouldn't get too unrealistic. When the Whigs were there and debating all day, I learn a lot about Libertarian principles. I'd sure love to learn some stuff about Slavic culture, but by working together for creating better RP rather than aping previous ones. |
| Date | 22:29:32, April 03, 2013 CET | From | Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS) | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: That is indeed true, however Deltaria had been Slavic for much longer before that, and to consider it Anglophone just because newer players didn't bother to read the wiki and old forum posts seems disrespectful towards players who actually invested a lot in developing the nation's cultural character. And this is not my opinion alone, it is in fact part of the game rules (see http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5240, according to which Deltaria is "culturally active"). Also, Deltaria's culture is already established as a hybrid of various RL Eastern European cultures plus a bit of Viking culture. That, of course, does not mean that there cannot be pro-Western movements or attitudes (otherwise the last couple of hundred years would make no sense). But there is a difference between attempts at democratization, and modifying the culture. Either way, I agree with the culture war idea. Oh, and Trigunia already has Russian as its language. The wiki also has some detailed information about Deltaria's history and culture, see http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Deltarian_History, http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Languages_of_Deltaria, http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Deltarian_Demographics, http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Deltarian_Culture, and http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Terran_Patriarchal_Church. |
| Date | 03:48:37, April 04, 2013 CET | From | Interim National Democratic Congress | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: We've made many references to the Terran Patriarchal Church (at least I have). We basically want a new hybrid culture. We've been playing from quite some time, and a sudden change in names and stuff is not exactly easy. So we can't have a full return to Slavic culture. Also, how many of us speak Slavic languages? I'm not opposed to Slavic culture completely but a complete change is uncalled for. |
| Date | 12:39:48, April 04, 2013 CET | From | Hosianská ľudová strana (HĽS) | To | Debating the Obnovenie |
| Message | OOC: Yes, I know you have, and I appreciate that. Now, what would a hybrid culture entail for you? I am sure that there can be a way to accommodate your concerns into developing Deltaria's culture. I was thinking that the best RL parallel to present-day Deltaria would be contemporary Russia, sans Putin and Soviet heritage, or perhaps contemporary Serbia, in other words an Eastern European country with a history of violence that tries to modernize, with varying degrees of success, but where the pre-modern political culture is still very strong under the surface, ready to rear its head when least expected. In our case, that would mean that the democratic elite, while generally well-meaning, is heavily Westernized and has adopted much of Luthori culture, out of both snobbishness and a general commitment to Artanian (European) values. That would seem to me the most logical and realistic way to integrate both cultural tendencies into a more or less coherent whole. I myself do not speak any Slavic language, but that in itself is not a major impediment. Previously I played in Dolgava, Kalopia, Dranland, Aldegar, Sekowo, Indrala, and a bunch of other nations, and although I don't speak Latvian, Greek, Spanish, Persian, Japanese, or Chinese, that did not prevent me from using those languages for titles, names of cities, and RP. The same goes for pretty much every player in non-Anglophone nations in this game, they are usually not knowledgeable about those nations' languages, without that diminishing their use of those languages (for example, nobody in Cildania really speaks Phoenician, a dead language, but the titles and city names are in that language). In our case, that is even easier, since all of Deltaria's traditional languages (excluding Akigan/Old English, a minority language anyway) are included in Google Translate and have well developed Wikipedia editions. Plus, I don not see how changes in city and title names would impact anyone's RP. They have, as I said before, zero impact on game mechanics, and in what concerns actual RP, the only real difference would be that instead of calling your character the Prime Minister, you'd call him Predseda Vlády. So my point here is that you needn't change your RP or modify your party in any way because of the language used for titles and cities. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 148 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 79 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 119 |
| Random fact: Players should not role-play characters without the consent of the owner, and if they find they have role-played the character beyond what the owner intended, they should withdraw or amend the role-play appropriately. |
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