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Bill: The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Imperial Kalistan Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2051
Description[?]:
| This is the second portion of the NDP's economic plan for the People. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Protection of original works of technology and arts.
Old value:: Works of technology and art are protected by copyright.
Current: Technology and art are part of the commons and are not protected by copyright.
Proposed: Technology and art are part of the commons and are not protected by copyright.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The patenting of software techniques.
Old value:: Software patents can be obtained from the patent office.
Current: Software designs, techniques, formulae and algorithms cannot be patented.
Proposed: Software designs, techniques, formulae and algorithms cannot be patented.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:16:08, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | No more selfishness and greed in society. Material wealth need not be the only reward for creating artwork, mathematical formulae, or software, inventions, ad infinitum. Through out history there are countless examples of the People's selflessness and altruism, which ought to be the primary guiding force behind all deeds in our Great Society. |
| Date | 07:34:19, May 11, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | While we agree selflessness and altruism are guiding forces for a person's actions, we're not sure this bill is practical. We fear some negative repercussions, on an economic level to name just one. But we'd like to hear some different opinions before committing to anything. |
| Date | 07:34:56, May 11, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | forgot a word: ...are *noble* guiding forces... |
| Date | 15:58:03, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Pansexual Peace Party -- FNORD | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | While we would be in favor of this, there is one question that we have. How will the companies make money. While we agree in principle to the bil, we also recognize that the inventor would, most likely, consider material gain to be formost a desire for invention. What incentive will the inventor have to create more things? If everyone owns everything, and has the right to them, we could experience a Academic and Technilogical recession, with fewer new inventions. We could lag far behind development in the future. While we agree to this bill in principle, there are several issues that must be adressed before we would vote. |
| Date | 17:27:37, May 11, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | The TDPK can not, and will NEVER support such a bill. If we pull out the keystone of the ivory tower, it WILL come crashing down around us, leaving us with only those who would rather do things for the good of our nation and starve, then move next door and make a million. |
| Date | 19:28:50, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | The inventor of the Kalashnikov, which bears his name, made not one single damn penny (until recently) on his wonderful invention. All he received was a few lousy medals and the love and respect of his people and Motherland. Money, money money. Why does it always have to be about money? How about "for the People", "for the Motherland"... "for posterity"???? Look at the Pyramids. The workers did that for posterity, religion... every reason EXCEPT for profit motive. How about just recognition? There are more important things than PROFIT. Just think about it... how econimical were the Pyramids? They cost a massive fortune just so some guy could have a tomb? It would never fly in modern capitalist society, so we have to live with mediocrity like McDonald's...so long as it produces profit. |
| Date | 20:39:13, May 11, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | Well, about the pyramids... I'm sure the Pharaoh was very proud and all, but I doubt the thousands and thousands of workers felt very noble when they worked themselves to death, out of fear of being denied a place in the afterlife. However, the poor example does not completely invalidate your point. Yes, too many things in life are focused around money, unfortunately. Yes, there are more important things in life. But when you're starving for the "greater good", it's kinda hard to remember that. This is, unfortunately, not a problem with an easy solution. While the SoG agrees with the spirit behind this bill, we fear that the implementation of it would do more harm than good. |
| Date | 20:51:52, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Pansexual Peace Party -- FNORD | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | (OOC: Am I allowed to bring in a RW example?) |
| Date | 21:25:42, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | OOC: yeah why not... we are using real world philosophies. We need some kind of evidence, right? Rather than making it up. |
| Date | 21:30:30, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | In response to the SoG: Keep in mind the workers of the Pyramids were still well fed and fairly well paid, which is why something like the Pyramids would never fly in a capitalist society. Allow me another example, if the Pyramid example does not suit the SoG or PPP: Take the light-bulb for example. Manufacturers of light-bulbs can in fact make them last much longer than their usual retail life span, but they don't. Why? Profit motive. If you have a light bulb that last you 20 or 30 years, you won't be a customer again for 20 or 30 years, right? Capitalism often times hinders progress in this respect because it will ONLY do what is profitable. If making fusion technology allowing a city to run on a glass of water for decades hinders profitability of selling fossil fuels, then sure... they will do their best to fight such technology. Again, this is profit versus the greater good. |
| Date | 23:34:28, May 11, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | Ah, once again we see an example of mister Smiths economics being selectively applied. Let us examine your light bulb example: Supposing such technology does exist, and supposing that it can be easily implemented, for equal cost, then it will be, according to the principals of capitalism. Why you ask? Would it not be more profitable for them to wait? The answer is yes, provided that they are the only ones who can produce such things. But they are not. A new company simply springs up, and takes the initiative, cornering the market in that area because their light bulbs cost 5x as much, but last 20x longer. See? Simple. |
| Date | 23:35:50, May 11, 2005 CET | From | Pansexual Peace Party -- FNORD | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | "Capitalism often times hinders progress in this respect because it will ONLY do what is profitable." Perhaps, but that statement can be turned around. One could say that profit drives invention. For example, take the former Soviet Union. Onec some new invention came along, it was owned by everybody, hence, the state. The inventors recieved no real reward or compensation for their invention. This reduced the modivation for new inventions, and, therefore, the aount of progress in technoligy altogether. For a more specific example, take the USSR's fighter aircraft. The Su-27 and the MiG-29 were among the best desighned aircraft in the world. The Su-27 could outmanuvre any western aircraft put up against it. But, when the Soviet aircraft were examined, and eguaged in simulated dogfights against western aircraft, they were determined to be inferior. Why, you ask? Computer Tech. While the west was using HUDs and massive MFDs, the Soviet fighters were still using old gages and needles. The more advanced computers gave the western fighters an edge that could only be overcome by superior numbers. As the NDP states in another bill, humans are animals by instinct. Animals are driven by selfishness. Therefore, humans are selfish. We humans are driven by what is best for us. Without some reward, there is no modivation for incentive or innovation This is the inherent flaw in Communism, and the inherent flaw in this Bill. |
| Date | 02:28:10, May 12, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | Well, it doesn't matter whether this bill passes or not. Our votes shall be recorded and the People will then decide in the next elections. The NDP could be right, and it could be wrong. |
| Date | 02:30:15, May 12, 2005 CET | From | Imperial Kalistan Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | OOC: there really isn't anything left to vote on anymore except to change what was already legislated. We can't just sit idle. |
| Date | 02:31:42, May 12, 2005 CET | From | Pansexual Peace Party -- FNORD | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | OOC: Yup, there really ain't nuthin else to legislize. hopefully, some new things are added to the game in the coming weeks. |
| Date | 03:57:32, May 13, 2005 CET | From | Interstate Centrist Party | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | The KNP does not support this bill. Our intellectual property must be available for ownership by Kalistani companies and organisations. As we support partial nationalisation, it would effectively mean state ownership regardless. |
| Date | 05:06:39, May 13, 2005 CET | From | To | Debating the The Great Society Bill (More Socialism Please part II) |
| Message | Long live the GNU! |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 11 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 36 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: For more information on Particracy's former colonial nations, check out http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6640 |
| Random quote: "Apparently, a democracy is a place where numerous elections are held at great cost without issues and with interchangeable candidates." - Gore Vidal |