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Bill: (Constitutional Reform Act)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Brit Yeudish
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 3548
Description[?]:
| OOC: Putting this Bill to the vote just to archive the discussion. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 23:48:52, September 05, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I appreciate these are big, far-reaching changes - so please give your views, everybody! A 2/3rds majority would be needed to pass them, although I would prefer to proceed with OOC unanimity if we possibly can. From my point of view, the most important thing we need to do something about is the Head of State title, which at the moment is probably illegal under the game rules because of the real life religious references. |
| Date | 01:00:37, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I like idea of having a Chief Rabbi and an elected President as joint heads of state which we discussed the other day. However, sadly, I think the secularist parties would block that. |
| Date | 06:44:24, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Miflega Libralim | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I prefer that we remain a parliamentary executive not a presidential one which won't work well in a multi party system as I witnessed in Dranland. Article 1,2 and 5 are OK. As for Jack's idea with the Chief Rabbi and President as joint Heads of State, it's interesting but I don't know, Beiteynu is not that religious like Saridan |
| Date | 13:24:43, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Beiteynu is the Jewish homeland like Israel. It is religious. "Land of Our Home" makes perfect sense, especially as we're the game's Jewish homeland. |
| Date | 13:28:25, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: If we're using Hebrew and then the English name in brackets, "Knesset" needs changing to "Knesset (Assembly)" just to make things more uniform. |
| Date | 13:41:51, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Triple post! I now think that if we have the Nesi HaMedina (President of the State) as our head of state title it would make Beiteynu too much like Israel. We'd have "Eretz" like Israel uses, we'd have "Nesi HaMedina" as Israel uses, and we'd have "Knesset" like Israel uses. I think we need a more unique head of state title like the one I'm suggesting ;) |
| Date | 13:44:04, September 06, 2013 CET |
From | Miflega Libralim | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Beiteynu is not religious, most of the voters place religion as one of their lowest priorities 'tiny' except in the department of Endlid where it's 'strong'. A country can be a homeland without having to be religious or lack separation of church and state in my view. Jewish in Jewish homeland refers to ethnicity rather than religion. Many of the men and women who led the Zionist movement were secularists. While I think of this religious issue to be somewhat an important issue, if everyone else agrees with it, I won't oppose it. |
| Date | 00:48:24, September 07, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: The Christianity-based Particracy religions use the term "priest", so in theory, and I've seen players roleplaying in Queranzariah (Muslim) nations referring to "imams", so in theory, I'm guessing we would be allowed to refer to rabbis and a "Chief Rabbi". However, in the interests of trying to be novel, I think there is a case for us trying to come up with an alternative term to use. Sometime soon I am hoping to do some work on Yeudism, and this is one of the things I will want to look at.
Does anyone have any ideas for a Particracy equivalent of "Chief Rabbi" or "rabbi", btw? |
| Date | 01:42:14, September 07, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: According to Wikipedia "rabi" or "rabanim" means "My Master". And "rav" means "great one". They're both on the "Rabbi" Wiki page. However, if some Hosian groups can use "priest" and if Queranzariah can use "imam" I think I'd prefer to use "Rabbi". |
| Date | 01:47:16, September 07, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I see your point, Jack. On the other hand, though the term "rabbi" does sound *very* distinctively Jewish (to my ears at least), and this is what makes me a bit hesitant about it. Anyway, I'll have a think (and everyone else have a think too!)... |
| Date | 01:57:55, September 07, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Yes, now you mention it, it is lol! And "priest" is very Christian...although I spose pagans and Zoroastrians and others use the term too... |
| Date | 02:01:46, September 07, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I've just read that the Hebrew word for "elder" is "zaqen", which also means "beard" in Hebrew (lol!). How about using "zaqen" and "zaqens" for "elder" and "elders" respectively? They could be the religious minister figures in Yeudism.
Though we may be able to find something that sounds better... |
| Date | 00:45:21, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I intented to propose "Shophet" as a name for a Head of State and/or Head of Government, but now you mention it, it could also potentially serve as an alternative to the "Chief Rabbi" title! ;) |
| Date | 06:42:19, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Bloc Am Chazak, Am Yedui, Am Libre | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: I personally like the way it is now, since it is the model for monarchy in Beiteynu and I like the monarchy. The way it used to work was that Each party got a prince or princess to RP and one generally unified corwn prince and monarch that was RPd by the oldest party but never spoke against the ruling coalation. |
| Date | 13:06:12, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: lol, Ege. You were talking of deactivating just the other day, now you're essentially passing or blocking important legislation. |
| Date | 17:52:47, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: By the way, "Mehoz (District)" is the correct (singular) version, not "Mehozot (Districts)". For example, "Endild Mehoz (District)" would be correct (because its just one district), "Endild Mehozot (Districts)" would not. |
| Date | 18:03:58, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Thanks for that correction, Jack. Where would I be without you guys? :)
As I said before, if we possibly can I would like constitutional reform to proceed with the OOC agreement of all Beiteynu players.
I am personally sympathetic to Jack's suggestion of having a Chief Rabbi and an elected President as Head of State. We may not have a consensus for that, though.
How much support would there be for a system where the position of Head of State is shared by a monarch (as at present) AND the Chief Rabbi (or the title of some other Yeudish religious leader)? That would be somewhat novel :).
Alternatively, I would be prepared to continue with the current monarchy system provided:
i. The RL religious references in the title are removed
ii. The curious system of having a monarch + a directly elected non-executive President is removed
iii. The name of the current King (Joshua II) is changed (because he's been on the throne rather a long time now - or so I understand, anyway!). |
| Date | 20:34:39, September 08, 2013 CET |
From | Hakla'ut VePituah | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: But then secularists and republicans will get left out. And, let's not forget, the current Beiteynuese monarchy isn't even recognised by the IML and the legitimate claimants of the Luthorian throne - I think - is the House of Orange-Villayn of Luthori. |
| Date | 00:14:18, September 09, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Yes, my idea probably would probably divide religious Yeudis and monarchists against secularists and republicans. Many members of you party, being socialist/communist, might object as well! |
| Date | 20:15:16, September 18, 2013 CET |
From | Brit Yeudish | To | Debating the (Constitutional Reform Act) | | Message | OOC: Putting this to the vote just to clear it out of the debate section and archive the discussion. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 85 |
| no | Total Seats: 0 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 35 |
| Random fact: Real life-life nationalities, cultures or ethnicities should not be referenced in Particracy (eg. "German"). |
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