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Bill: Rapula Referendum Process
Details
Submitted by[?]: National People's Gang
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: October 2057
Description[?]:
| Noting the concerns expressed in the Parliament of Lodamun for the application of an appropriate referendum process to decide the future of the region known as "Rapula", the issue shall be held in abeyance pending the implementation of referenda procedures. The people of Rapula are duly requested to suspend activities regarding independence during the interim period. However, recognising that the patience of the independence movement is not inexhaustible, the issue shall not lie unheeded indefinitely. This issue will be suspended for a maximum period of four governments from, and inclusive of, the government installed in the next election, or for 20 years from July 2054 (whichever is the longer). At which time, should a referendum process not be installed, the original bill, including the Default Referendum Process (as stated below) shall be brought before debate and a vote taken. The parliament of Lodamun regrets the unavoidable delay of this important issue and is grateful for the continuing engagement of the Rapula independence movement in the non-violent pursuit of its aims. DEFAULT REFERENDUM PROCESS Given the calls for the region within the Independent Republic of Lodamun known as "Rapula" to become independent and a separate state, a referendum shall be held to establish the views of the people of the region. Mechanics At the next Lodamun general election, all candidates in the Rapula region will stand on a simple "Yes to independence" or "No to independence" ticket. The position adopted by parties must be announced before the election and recorded as an amendment to this bill. Any parties not recording their position prior to the election are deemed not to have taken part in the referendum and votes for these parties are not considered as part of the referendum process. Outcomes The number of votes is calculated on percentage of votes cast, not seats achieved nor on percentage of total population. The votes of all parties standing on "Yes" are added together and the votes of all parties standing on "No" are added together. In order to achieve a positive outcome, 51% of votes cast must be "Yes". If this figure is not achieved the issue of independence for Rapula ends and unhappiness in the region must be dealt with by alternative methods. If 51% vote in favour of independence, the following process becomes active: 1. Within the same term of office the Lodamun Parliament must pass an act making Rapula independent. 2. However many votes the independence act achieves, it does not pass unless at least one of the parties who stood on the "Yes to independence" ticket supports it. 3. If parliament fails to pass such an act, the Default Rapula Independence Process (see below) becomes the default bill and is activated as law. DEFAULT RAPULA INDEPENDENCE PROCESS Recognising the cultural, historical and political differences between the region known as Rapula and the other regions of Lodamun; and, given the lack of representation the peoples of Rapula have suffered for at least two consecutive parliaments; furthermore, with an understanding of the majority of political parties' support of, and respect for, democracy and the democratic process; and finally, bearing in mind the mandate given by the peoples of Rapula to the Albert Party, to represent their views; we respectfully submit a proposal for independence to be granted to the region such that it shall become a soveriegn nation in its own right. 1. The region known as "Rapula", currently within the Independent Republic of Lodamun, shall cease immediately to be part of that republic. 2. The peoples of "Rapula" shall immediately have independence in all aspects including political, social, economic and military activity. 3. A transitory body, The Rapula Independence Commission, shall be created for a period of one year, to oversee the peaceful transition from control by the Lodamun Parliament, to whatever system of government the peoples of Rapula choose for themselves. 4. The commission shall consist of: a. The politicians elected currently by the peoples of the region of Rapula to the parliament of Lodamun. b. A panel of three politicians (from three different parties) from the Lodamun Parliament, chosen by the President of Lodamun. 5. A multi-party working group representative of the Lodamun Parliament shall, concurrently with, but separately from, the Rapula independence process, investigate the opportunity for a horizontal federal relationship with the new nation and submit a proposal to its representatives as soon as they are chosen. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 21:07:55, May 12, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | May we point out a few facts that may pertain to this rather sudden proposal: -- most parties in Lodamun agree on the principle of decentralization of power to the regions. If the people of Rapula wish more power to be devolved to them, then this can easily be arranged. For instance, a bill to devolve gambling decisions to the lcoal governments is currently under debate. -- The Albert Party's claims to represent the people of Rapula are tenuous at best. Although the Albert Party did win 7 seats in Rapula, other parties won 13 seats. -- Indeed, the Albert Party is arguably over-represdented in parliament because our enlightened electoral system over-represents parties with strong regional bases. May we point out that more citizens of Lodamun voted for the CCF than for the Albert Party, but the Albert Party won more seats due to the way our system rewards regionally-based parties over federalist parties like the CCF. -- The Albert Party recently voted to remove the power to make decisions on marriage from the Rapula regional government. It can scarcely complain now that the regional government lacks sufficient powers. -- The Albert Party has hardly been marginalized. Its calls for cooperative workplaces was approved by parliament after a productive debate. It has voted in agreement with the governing coalition on most subjects (agreement ranges from 71% with the Amystian Council to 86% foir the CCF). -- The Albert Party may well be invited to join the government in the future, as no decision has been taken on the next cabinet. -- The regional parliament of Rapula has passed no bill requesting independence, so it is not appropriate for the national parliament to debate this. -- Together, all Lodamunians are stronger. The CCF did not demand independence for the regions where we happened to win elections when we were in opposition. Nor will we do so in the future if we enter opposition again. -- Let us instead investigate ways to devolve power to all the regions. Why is Rap[ula unique, and not Kregon? Each region has its own distinct characteristics that togetyher make up our great and diverse republic. There is no need to balkanize Lodamun: the aspirations of the regions can easily be accomodated within our current federal system. |
| Date | 01:13:46, May 13, 2005 CET | From |  National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | The speaker of the CCF is mistaken, or has misinterpreted some detail of the proposal. 1. The people of Rapula do not want to be handed down "freedoms" by a government which does not represent them. 2. We claim, rightly, to represent a significant proportion of the people of Rapula, not its entirety. 3. Whatever may be the peculiarities of the electoral system of Lodamun is of no interest and no relevance to the people of Rapula. 4. Actually the Albert Party voted to remove all interference of government in the act of marriage between consenting adults, as this was the effect of the bill. 5. The Albert Party has never claimed to be marginalised. This issue concerns the people of Rapula. 6. We rebuke the suggestion that a possible offer of being invited to join the government would cause us to neglect our duties to the people of Rapula. 7. As the hand-me-down-freedoms policy of the national government does not stretch as far as allowing regional parliaments to secede from Lodamun, it is somewhat insincere of the CCF speaker to suggest they should do so. It is, of course, a matter for the national parliament to agree. 7. We are only stronger together if we are united as equals. The people of Rapula are not, have not been, nor seek to be, represented in a Lodamun government. Furthermore, neither what the CCF has done in the past in other regions, nor what it will do in the future, is relevant or of interest to the people of Rapula. 8. Freedom is not eked in tidbits from the tables of overlords. The people of Rapula, no doubt, would willingly sit with the peoples of Kregon and all other regions, as equals in horizontal federalism, where each brings the strength of their own freedom to freely combine for the greater good. Finally and clearly: This proposal is about the people of Rapula. Comments regarding the Albert Party are not relevant. |
| Date | 06:43:09, May 13, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | "Horizontal federalism" is entirely possible. It will not be achieved by starting with independence for one region. It can be achieved by representatives of all regions working together in a process of negotiation. This bill does not even call for a referendum on independence. It calls for the national parliament to thrust independence unilaterally on a region where the majority of people have not voted to separate from their sisters and brothers in the rest of Lodamun. Is this democracy? |
| Date | 10:50:58, May 13, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | Horizontal federalism can only be achieved between independent bodies. The very concept of "regions" clearly identifies that there is a higher authority, the "nation". The people of Rapula clearly do not consider themselves part of the state of Lodamun. CCF has barely 8% of the vote, the whole adminstration recieved marginally more than a quarter of the vote. Is that democracy? Imperialism takes many guises, one of the most sinister is that of the liberals who quote "the greater good" as a reason to subject others to their will. |
| Date | 16:44:40, May 13, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | "The people of Rapula clearly do not consider themselves part of the state of Lodamun." We reject utterly this untruthful statement as a piece of politically self-serving sophistry. The people of Rapula have made no such decision. |
| Date | 17:49:24, May 13, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | Almost 70% of the people of Rapula have voted against this particular administration. |
| Date | 01:14:39, May 14, 2005 CET | From | MLTP (The Resistance) | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | At the present, the MLTP does not support Rapula separatism, and at any rate, if Rapula were to gain her independence, it would have to be by means of regional referendum. |
| Date | 04:53:26, May 14, 2005 CET | From | CNT/AFL | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | The CNT/AFL is fully supportive of whatever choice Rapulans decide to make, so we are against a Parliamentary act granting them independence. Instead, we are in favour of a referendum, unfortunately, we don't have the ahem, infrastructure yet for it to be possible, so it may take a while. |
| Date | 17:06:46, May 15, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | ((Interesting effort to simulate a referendum, and probably the closest the game machanics can handle right now. But being in Canada, i know that majority votes for separatist parties don't convert into referendum votes for independence. I'd prefer to press for a game option to actually hold referenda as more realistic, especially as the game would still calculate an independent Rapula's results into Lodamun elections of we take this course. The only way the game can accomodate this proposal is to agree in advance that Rapula doesn't vote to separate, really. I wish things were different, since this is a rather cool idea.)) |
| Date | 19:58:36, May 15, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | ((Sorry for this rare excursion into player-speak: I think we should try it out. If the vote goes ahead and Rapula opts out, the game builder is close enough involved for us to ask directly for Rapula to be removed and either become a black hole for a while or to be established as a separate one-region country. If none of that is possible and Rapula has to stay then we have to deal politically with a situation many real world countries face. Rapula would become our fly in the ointment, our worm in paradise. It would become the Rapula Question. I think that would add far more interest to jockeying back and forth within the limited framework of the current "proposals" system. Most politics is about trying to find the most palatable compromise given an uncompromisable set of circumstances. Without such anomalies the game is essentially just a debating society)) ((Oh and PS, while I'm on, I fully appreciate the robustness of debate is all in character. No personal offence taken at any of it and certainly no personal offence intended by any of Albert's sometimes clipped retorts)) |
| Date | 00:08:53, May 17, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Democrats | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | The Lib Dems from the Valruzian Federation hope that this seperatist movement doesn't spread to Valruzian territories :) |
| Date | 03:04:59, May 17, 2005 CET | From | MLTP (The Resistance) | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | ((I tend to agree with the CCF in that while it's a cool idea, we should wait until the game is updated to accommodate for independence referendums, rather than try and simulate one)). |
| Date | 00:18:29, May 18, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | ((If others are willing to role-play it out, i could go along with the method suggested. It might be more realistic to offer the separation option in one election, then require it be confirmed in another before separation actually occurs -- the first election simulating the arrival of separatist MP's, and the second the holding of a referendum in parallel with elections.)) |
| Date | 09:29:36, May 18, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | This proposal has now been amended so that it calls for a suspension of the debate for 20 years (to allow time for a referendum system). However, it leaves in place default system for a referendum and independence process so that the debate, when or if it returns, has a basis on which to work. Please note, this doesn't mean the bill automatically goes through, it means the bill must go to debate and vote in 20 years. |
| Date | 17:34:34, May 19, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | Looking at those election results putting the Fascists into a position of influence, perhaps Rapula IS more trouble than it's worth. -- Ill-considered remarks by CCF member of parliament, immediately retracted witha full apology. |
| Date | 22:19:14, May 19, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | There's no need to apologise, it' s a pretty accurate statement of the facts. It seems the Rapulese (as they prefer to be known) became disenchanted with what they interpreted as Albert's inability to deliver and have swung into jingoistic nationalism. It has become the fascists' heartland with a massive swing away from Albert's calls for moderation and into the trap of extremism. However, the party organisation is strong in Rapuka and, if we can withstand the onslaught of the blackshirts, we'll work to bring sense and peace back to the region. I don't suppose anyone checked the ballot boxes did they? |
| Date | 18:32:35, May 21, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | Discussion on means to implement referenda is at http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=595&mforum=particracy |
| Date | 18:08:35, May 23, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | This bill, probably the most extensive in the history of our nation*, now sets a timescale for us to discuss and vote on a referendum process, offers an optional procedure for holding a referendum and an optional procedure for independence. It is simply a commitment to bring the issue to the table again after a period of analysis and investigation. We do not believe we can simply ignore the issue and unless there are relevant objections, we're planning to bring it to vote. * (That's "nation" as in "nation" not "nation" as in "nation") |
| Date | 20:53:08, May 24, 2005 CET | From | Chorus of Amyst | To | Debating the Rapula Referendum Process |
| Message | (( * "(That's "nation" as in "nation" not "nation" as in "nation")" *lmao* )) The Council will certainly support a commitment to revisit the issue. We desired more time to discuss this in any case, and this will guarantee it. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 81 | ||||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 6 |
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