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Bill: Price regulation for Energy
Details
Submitted by[?]: Trigunian Social-Democratic Workers
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: July 2161
Description[?]:
| Price regulation for Energy |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Energy regulation.
Old value:: Energy is provided by private companies which are not subject to any special regulations.
Current: Energy is provided by private companies but the prices they can charge are regulated.
Proposed: Energy is provided by private companies but the prices they can charge are regulated.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 00:10:56, December 25, 2005 CET | From |  Trigunian Social-Democratic Workers | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | Energy is a strategic sector of the economy. The price of energy determines the competitivness of national companies in foreign trade. Also the families are affected by energy costs. |
| Date | 16:12:16, December 25, 2005 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | If it is a strategic sector of the economy, then that is even more reason for it not to be messed up by the state's intervention. In a land where competition is suppressed by the dead hand of the state, there is no virtue in complaining about the competitiveness of national companies. |
| Date | 22:58:12, December 25, 2005 CET | From | Trigunian Social-Democratic Workers | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | Let me give you a RL example: In the USA the existing regulation was reduced. As a consequence the number of blackouts have increased leading to huge losses in industrial production and, of course, rioting. |
| Date | 00:06:31, December 26, 2005 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | The blackouts were not a consequence of deregulation, and anyone who claims otherwise is either being dishonest or at least deliberately obtuse. The blackouts in the US had nothing to do with generation supply (which is influenced by you interfering with prices), but was caused because your grid is a pile of cack. The reason your grid sucks so bad is that your government's half-hearted approach towards deregulation meant that it ended up a complete shambles. Your deregulation provided for no incentives for the companies running the grid to upgrade the grid infrastructure and hence no upgrades were done. Compare this with the more determined and less shambolic privatisation in places like England & Wales where incentives and proper deregulation meant that the incumbent grid operator (National Grid) spent, in relative terms, 10 times as much on grid upgrades. We understand your position, that as socialists, you feel it is your moral duty to get the state involved in every aspect of people's lives and try to run everything for them, so that everyone suffers equally, but please don't pretend that central planning is ever going to lead to better planning, and please don't blame the market for the problems that are your politicians' fault. |
| Date | 00:21:47, December 26, 2005 CET | From | Trigunian Social-Democratic Workers | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | I'm not going to stoop to your level and start labeling you as this or that and judge you by those labels. This is politics not a moral trial. I don't know where you got the idea that I am or ever was a US citizen. Regulation went down. Black outs went up. Do the math. So you favor incentives. You say it's proper deregulation. I think that it's proper regulation. For your last remark, I reiterate with my first on this post. |
| Date | 12:40:15, December 26, 2005 CET | From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Price regulation for Energy |
| Message | I'm sorry if I offended you by mistaking you for a US citizen. It just seemed that as your RL examples all seem to be the US, and your spelling follows US conventions, I figured that was where you are. "Regulation went down. Black outs went up. Do the math." This is called a logical fallacy, specifically it is the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, or false cause. Just because black outs went up after regulation went down, you assume that lower regulation was the cause. Indeed you presumably think that the specific regulation at fault was the absence of regulation of prices (since this is what are you proposing as a fix). Yes, I favour incentives. Incentives are how you get people to do things without forcing them. Regulation is how you get people to do things by forcing them. As a capitalist, I favour encouraging but not coercing; as a socialist you favour forcing. That is, I suppose, the fundamental difference in our philosophies. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 111 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 219 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 124 |
| Random fact: Any RP law granting extraordinary "emergency powers" or dictator-like powers to a government must be passed by at least a 2/3rds majority, but (like all RP laws) may always be overturned by a simple majority vote of the legislature. |
| Random quote: "I'm the motherfucking Premier of Kalistan. It don't get more full time than that!" - Omar Al-Khali, former Kalistani politician |