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Bill: Military Personal Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Nationalist Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2183
Description[?]:
| The Nationalist, Having total faith in the Military Forces of Rutania and there Leaders, believe that such decission on who serves where, should best be left up to the Generals and Field Marshells of the Defence Forces. Racial descimination is Illegal. But racism is always there and some units may operate better without having to deal with Racial tention. Either way, id rather let the Commands deal with there Forces, to best deal with the Defence of Rutania. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Discrimination in the military on grounds of race/religion.
Old value:: Any adult citizen can serve in the military, discrimination for racial or religious reasons is prohibited.
Current: Any adult citizen can serve in the military, discrimination for racial or religious reasons is prohibited.
Proposed: The government does not interfere with the military over who can serve in it.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:03:21, January 01, 2006 CET | From |  RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | So, what your reasoning is based upon is that because there is a problem, we must ignore it so that the problem doesn't cause more problems? That is a strange logic, because if we make sure there is no problem, the problem in question cannot cause more problems. Racial discrimination is something which mustn't be tolerated anywhere, not even in the military! This would also set a clear precedent, it would effectively place the military above legal authority, we cannot allow that. The Federal President is in charge, not the Chief of the Defence Forces! For these reasons, we must oppose this bill. |
| Date | 02:04:15, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | If racial discrimination cannot be tolerated anywhere RSDP, why do you support positive discrimination? which is racial discrimination |
| Date | 02:53:54, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Radical Freedom Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | We are opposed to discrimination in the military and are therefore opposed to this legislation. |
| Date | 03:02:25, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | We understand the points of View of the RSDP and RFP. But it is still the Opinion of the Nationalist the the Military itself knows best on how to operate. |
| Date | 13:25:54, January 02, 2006 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | "If racial discrimination cannot be tolerated anywhere RSDP, why do you support positive discrimination? which is racial discrimination" We most certainly do not *support* positive discrimination, we merely believe that we must be able to keep all option open and that resorting to positive discrimination is sometimes and unfortunate necessity to counter racial discrimination in the long run. |
| Date | 14:49:59, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Libertarian Alcoholic Party II | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | I think racial tension will be higher if people have to serve in segregated race units than if they're put into units with those of different races. |
| Date | 15:10:20, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | Yes, true. where not say different, where saying let the Defence force decide. EG: would ex-Dundolfian serving in the Rutania Military really all that much wanna shot at his Relatives? |
| Date | 16:59:18, January 02, 2006 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | No. We need as many people in the military as possible. Espionage is already illegal. If the ex-Dundorfian refused to fight then military justice will deal with him. Then again, if he has left to fight for us, I doubt he has many qualms about shooting at them. |
| Date | 17:23:38, January 02, 2006 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | Just a legal point, but "Espionage" as an act does not constitute a crime. All aspects of "Espionage" are covered by other legal terms such as "Treason", "Illegal use of Government property", etc... |
| Date | 03:49:07, January 03, 2006 CET | From | Radical Freedom Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | "If the Nationalists 'understand' our points I wonder why they are not taking them into account? What sort of debate is this then?" |
| Date | 13:54:50, January 03, 2006 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | "Just a legal point, but "Espionage" as an act does not constitute a crime. All aspects of "Espionage" are covered by other legal terms such as "Treason", "Illegal use of Government property", etc..." I dont know about cloud cookoo land, sorry, Belgium, but in Britain espionage is a seperate crime. |
| Date | 18:50:00, January 03, 2006 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | OOC: Please don't make OOC remarks without indicating so, and as far as I know espionage is not a crime anywhere. It is subdivided into many different offences, including, but not limited to, theft of government property, illegally transferring classified information, etc... and treason (as most, if not all, people in a position to commit "espionage" owe allegiance to their country). |
| Date | 18:51:45, January 03, 2006 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | OOC: I forgot to add that making "espionage" a crime would virtually outlaw foreign intelligence services and clandestine operations. But as far as I know their actions fall under exceptions of those "sub-crimes". |
| Date | 18:52:36, January 03, 2006 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | OOC: and last, but not least, please don't make fun of my country, it only makes you look like an arrogant ass. |
| Date | 18:51:05, January 04, 2006 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | "OOC: Please don't make OOC remarks without indicating so, and as far as I know espionage is not a crime anywhere. It is subdivided into many different offences, including, but not limited to, theft of government property, illegally transferring classified information, etc... and treason (as most, if not all, people in a position to commit "espionage" owe allegiance to their country)." Well I DO know, and espionage IS a crime you can be charged with in Britain. "OOC: I forgot to add that making "espionage" a crime would virtually outlaw foreign intelligence services and clandestine operations. But as far as I know their actions fall under exceptions of those "sub-crimes"." Yeah that is kind of the point. "OOC: and last, but not least, please don't make fun of my country, it only makes you look like an arrogant ass." Nitpicking everything and still getting it wrong makes you look like an arrogant ass. |
| Date | 09:47:38, January 05, 2006 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | "We most certainly do not *support* positive discrimination, we merely believe that we must be able to keep all option open and that resorting to positive discrimination is sometimes and unfortunate necessity to counter racial discrimination in the long run." Time for me to nitpick, how can you not support it if you vote for it and have proposed it? How can you 'not support it' if you believe that resorting to it is necessary to counter racial discrimination. Final point, How can racial discrimination be eliminated by implementing legal racial discrimination. |
| Date | 09:58:30, February 08, 2006 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Military Personal Act |
| Message | Lots of good debate here, i table |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 0 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 234 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 365 |
| Random fact: It is forbidden to impersonate a player or Moderator. |
| Random quote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - Thomas Paine |