We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: [OOC] Reforms
Details
Submitted by[?]: National Party of Luthori
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 4038
Description[?]:
| Please discuss reforms here that you would like to see for the Privy council and national cabinet. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 02:10:31, May 12, 2016 CET | From | Freeborn Luthorians/Freeborn Coalition | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | I'd suggest lowering the power of the Privy to Constitutional in nature, with only religious and some power enforce EXISTING laws. |
| Date | 16:33:11, May 12, 2016 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | The proposals I have would not change the powers, but combine some of the offices and help define in writing more of the existing laws. Right now it is an unwritten Constitution at the Imperial Level (OOC: Use to have one, but it is lost and I did not write it to begin with). We can clarify more on certain roles and powers though in writing and thus establish some more "legal" control over the Imperial Government. Will hash them more out during next week, but here are some thoughts. As for offices to combine, the system is built to allow for multiple territories to have a voice while Luthori is "first among equals." Because we are currently the only throne I propose the following offices be combined as duel offices (at least until we have more territories): 1) Imperial Finance Minister with Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord High Treasurer - Adopting the latter titles completely. This might have to revert when there is more than one Finance minister the empire. With there being a Council of Finance Minister led by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord High Treasurer. We can write it as such, saying the Emperor chooses the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord High Treasurer from the committee (with the Luthori Finance Minister being the only one it makes it kind of straight forward). 2) Imperial Foreign Minister with Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Lord High Steward -Much like the Finance Minister, I am thinking of a committee structure that makes it Luthori by default, but leaves room for future expansion. Currently they are too separate positions with the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs acting like a special ambassador for the Emperor, while the IFM reports to the PM. Might move some of the responsibilities listed under the Privy Council title to another position on the Privy Council. 3) Justice Minister with Chief Justice of the Imperial Supreme Court, Lord High Chancellor Basically formally starting the position (moving it from out of the PM's office) and taking some of the Lord High Stewards responsibilities. I am keeping the Imperial Seal-Bearer and PM separate. Their functions and responsibilities are too much for one to control, their responsibilities are too different. and I do not believe the Emperor's ability to rule at the Imperial level should be "challenged" by the Diet. All other offices are domestic in nature, and really have no need to be on the Privy Council. Will try to define in writing more clearly the powers of the PC, but some of it will be left out as the benefits of an unwritten constitution are worth preserving for some matters. I also will have some proposals for clarifying IDM structure, and will also try to complete the Luthori military list by the end of next week. |
| Date | 00:49:40, May 13, 2016 CET | From | National Party of Luthori | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | Thank you for your suggestions and input. I will put forth my suggestions later today. |
| Date | 21:24:47, May 13, 2016 CET | From | National Party of Luthori | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | I'm typing on my phone so forgive any errors. "I'd suggest lowering the power of the Privy to Constitutional in nature, with only religious and some power enforce EXISTING laws." Yes well I tried to sort of do that by essentially merging the Privy council and cabinet together but that reform was rejected (didn't get 2/3s of vote) so we are trying for a compromise in order to satisfy the ICU. "The proposals I have would not change the powers, but combine some of the offices and help define in writing more of the existing laws. etc" I agree with some of your suggestions. Now my suggestion would be that Minister of Internal Affairs would be merged with Secretary of State for Security. Also regardless if we merge this title or not there should be a much simpler explanation for how the current security of the Empire operates. The PM being separate really makes the head of government look subordinate to the PM. The very title of "Prime Minister" means that he's first among equals and well above the Imperial Chancellor. Furthermore, according to the wiki the PM also is the Lord President of the Council further solidifying his superior status to the HoG. The Emperor's ability to rule won't being challenged by an expanded HoG or the Diet, but actually he's being advised by the Chancellor. Remember, technically it is the Emperor who officially approves and appoints the Head of Government along with the rest of the cabinet. |
| Date | 22:51:52, May 13, 2016 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | The point is for the PM to above the National HoG. The PM is de facto HoG of the entire empire. The Imperial Seal-Bearer is simply HoG of the National Government of Luthori. However he also carries the titly of Privy Seal on the PC. This is a privilege only the Luthori HoG gets. It has power and influence. As for the the Security it is fairly straight forward. The Secretary of State for Security is located in the IDM as it covers all of the empire (Luthori being the only direct member currently). The internal ministry is desperate as it is the National level. In many ways, the empire is a federal system. Duchies are counties, the nation is a province/state, and the Imperial is the Federal. It would not make sense to have a internal minister of one nation have control of all empire wide domestic security. Plus the current IDM reflects the military like nature if Luthori something I will be trying to the revive now that I have more time. I can look at rewriting the security descriptions to provide a more clear description, and will work on some graphs to also help explain. To preserve the ability for expansion is key, for if Luthori dominates by default it becomes difficult to maintain. |
| Date | 00:47:51, May 14, 2016 CET | From | National Party of Luthori | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | Yes but I don't want the PM to be above the HoG for those reasons I stated. I don't believe in the seperate levels of Imperial and national but am willing to accept it if the HoG is truly the Head of government (Imperial and National). The current PM is an unelected person that you essentially control while the HoG is at least someone that everyone can attain. I'm not saying that the position of PM would be obsolete as it could remain as Lord President and essentially we would have two heads of government, each acting as a check on each other. This is your explanation for the security of the Empire: " Officials that have duel hats, like the Imperial Defense Minister, who serves within the Luthori Government and the Imperial Government, is answers first to the Imperial and then the National. However, considering he is the chief of acquisition and procurement, his role is minimal. The IDM reforms have the top three heads of the IDM as the Chief-of-the-Imperial General Staff, Lord High Constable, who is the leader and head of the HIM; the Secretary of State for Security, Lord Master-at-Arms, who is the leader and head of the Imperial Office of Domestic Security; and the Secretary of State for Intelligence, Lord Spymaster, who is the leader and head of the Imperial Office of Foreign Intelligence." This is not...simple my man. You have created a beaucracy that no one is really following but you. In other nations its crystal clear what each cabinet position can do but in Luthori that's not exactly the case. |
| Date | 15:46:28, May 14, 2016 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | I have "controlled" the PM in a passive role. Not active. Again it is desperate as the PM is usually the Prince of Orange and us meant to not be overly Luthori dominated. The empire is more than Luthori (Alduria, Mordusia...ect.). The two post should be seperate. It increases the Emperor's power and the HoG of Luthori is already a powerful position (which no other country can get) on th PC. If someone has an idea for what they want to do with the PM I am fine with them using them. As for the above (the above aside, which I spent very little time on) is very straight forward. The IDM handles both domestic and external military. The IDM is a duel Ministry. In otherwords it has leaders that are Luthorian and serve in the National and Imperial levels. It has two branches. The IDM reforms lay it all out. As for leaders it is straightforward. The Defense Minister has no command and is both a national and Imperial position. He simply deals with acquisition. This position is another bobus for Luthori, as it only allowed for Luthori. Next is the Chief-of-the-Impeial General Staff is de facto HoM (Emperor is de jure). This position is solely Imperial and us appointed by the Emperor. Then foreign intelligence falls under the Secretary of State of Intelligence, again is only Imperial and Emperor appointed. Lastly is the Secretary of State is head of Domestic security for the whole Empire. Again is just like the last two positions. How is that confusing. It is very clear on what does what. The Internal Ministry, is national and controls the National police. It does not care about the entire empire, but simply Luthori. All of this is fairly straightforward and simple. Most of these are passive positions that exist in RP and can be used if anyone is interested. |
| Date | 15:59:22, May 14, 2016 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | Sorry for typos, on the phone today due to a conference. |
| Date | 23:26:40, May 15, 2016 CET | From | National Party of Luthori | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | Regarding the PM we will have to agree to disagree. Currently the Empire is not more than Luthori and it won't be expanding anytime soon unless we can get players who are willing to go to other nations and RP under the Luthori banner. You say it increases the Emperors powers, yet the Emperor's power unofficially relies on the support of pro-Imperial parties in the Diet. I realise in the past every party in Luthori was essentially pro-noble and even consisted of nobles, but this era is quite different with two major communist parties and the rest either nationalist or monarchist. The position of PM/Lord President and the HoG acting as a check on each other won't cause the whole system to fall a part. I realise it just looks like me who is the confused idiot but, HSP has told me that he's going to give his two cents here. I will admit that your second explanation has cleared some things up regarding the IDM but overall I think a lot of new players could be confused by it. |
| Date | 02:33:52, May 16, 2016 CET | From | Imperial Conservative Union (IA) | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | It is also to keep the two PC positions separate. There is the possibility that the stuff going on in the North will grow the empire. I will work on rewrighting these things to make it clearer. It is really a way for the nobility to have their say, with the commoners to have the Diet. I think it adds RP wealth and better captures Luthori. It can be complicated, but if we can explain it, it will enrich our country's unqicness and RP lore. |
| Date | 10:11:26, June 02, 2016 CET | From | Liberal Party | To | Debating the [OOC] Reforms |
| Message | OOC: 1. Abolishing the Privy Council or MAKE it a ceremonial council. 2. Dissolve the Imperial Government and make it just a single tier of national government for the whole empire, delegating powers to member states through an elected parliament and a duchy government. It is confusing and inefficient. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 371 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 78 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 216 |
| Random fact: Real-life organisations should not be referenced in Particracy, unless they are simple and generic (eg. "National Organisation for Women" is allowed). |
| Random quote: "Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. Education and free discussion are the antidotes of both." - Thomas Jefferson |