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Bill: Patriotic Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Heradite Yunitou
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 2178
Description[?]:
The national flag may not be desecrated or dishonoured.
This will keep a sense of patriotism in the country. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:40:36, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Radical Democratic Party | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | We concur with the DPP. Even in times of grave danger to the Fatherland, Indrala stands for freedom. |
| Date | 01:47:30, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | By letting the burning of the flag other nations might consider our people either to be unhappy or wanting a change of government. |
| Date | 01:52:44, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Inrala no Ikolowagitou (Green) | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | So what?
If our people want a change of government they are entitled to say so. That is our strength.
The flag is a piece of cloth, not some holy relic. The true desecration would be to trample upon our ideals in the name of security.
|
| Date | 02:21:51, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | We see love of a flag as a sick kind of political fetishism. We oppose this very thoroughly. |
| Date | 02:44:57, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | By burning the flag, a symbol of the ideals of this nation, would be the same as trambling ont he ideals of this nation.
While it may be a piece of cloth it serves as a symbol. |
| Date | 10:21:52, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | As I said, political Fetishism. Burning the flag does not trample on the nations ideals, seeings as one of those ideals is that we should have the right to burn the flag. You are trampling on this nations ideals by taking that right away... Hypocrite. |
| Date | 14:59:10, January 28, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Yet the Flag is the symbol. Thus we should burn our ideals because we have the right to? |
| Date | 01:30:31, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | You don't understand at all. By burning the flag you are exercising a right which symbolises the liberty that this Nation stands for. A far stronger symbol than a piece of material. |
| Date | 02:27:45, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | So basically if a person hates the Government they should burn down the Head of State? After all it is ok to burn a symbol-so why not burn all of the symbols! |
| Date | 04:26:26, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Democratic Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | No, because this nation doesn't stand for setting fire to fellow citizens. It does, however, stand for any means of political expression which does no harm to others. It is the right of any Indralan to protest against the government's policies. |
| Date | 05:37:27, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | In the Constitution it states the Head of State to be a symbol.
A flag is a symbol.
By the freedom of expression-in ypur view-they are allowed to burn both. Or so we are getting. If they have that freedom of expression then they should kill people to express anger towards the Government-or how were are reaching it. |
| Date | 07:36:56, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Democratic Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Not, they are not allowed to burn both. Burning the head of state would disrupt government, as well as violating his individual rights. It therefore goes beyond the right to political expression. |
| Date | 10:35:05, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Inrala no Ikolowagitou (Green) | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Burning the flag - a piece of cloth - should be treated as burning other pieces of cloth - legal unless if poses a particular hazard. Burning the the Head of state - a person - should be treated as burning other people - illegal.
Surely that is not a difficult concept to grasp?
|
| Date | 12:25:49, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Apparently many simple concepts like this are VERY hard to grasp for the Heredites.
OOC: I laughed so hard when I witnessed the Heredites' leap of logic from legalising flag burning to legalising Statesman burning. Apparently logic is not the Heredites' forte. |
| Date | 15:26:35, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | (OOC: Actually if you think about it, it would make sense. Both are symbols-burning one symbol must be ok so why not burn the other symbol?)
And yet saying Heradite is to hard for the ILP. Saying the name in plural would be Heradites.
IGP:
Yet the Flag is not just a piece of cloth! It is a symbol of who Indrala is, who it stands for, and how great the nation is! |
| Date | 15:46:08, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Democratic Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | So what? If a citizen decides he disagrees with government policies, he is free to express it in any way that does no harm to others. If Indrala stands for restricting free speech, as the Heradite Party seems to believe, then I will be the first to burn our flag. |
| Date | 15:49:07, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Freedom of speech, this does not effect. Freedom of expression, it does.
We do not believe in the burning or the destruction of a good symbol.
But don't we restrict freedom of speach by not letting the media, or anyone through the media, unable to say whatever they want. It may be lies or hate speach but you are restricting the freedom of speach. |
| Date | 15:58:34, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Democratic Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | You just admitted this affects our citizens' freedom. If you can explain to me how burning the flag violates another's rights, then I will vote for this. Denying people the freedom to engage in an action which does not affect others is an unconscionable course of action. |
| Date | 16:25:52, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | It violates the right to salute the flag if the flag is burnt. It violates the right to honor a nation with a burnt flag. |
| Date | 17:29:04, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Democratic Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | If you want to salute a flag, get your own. A person is free to do whatever he wills with his own property, including destroying it. |
| Date | 21:40:16, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Radical Democratic Party | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | The Head of State, Thomas Jefferson Jr., cannot express how much he disagrees with the idea of him being burned.
He also wishes to add that, had the RGSP got its tacky flag design approved, he would have been happy to empty his bowels on the new flag. |
| Date | 23:00:50, January 29, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | Thomas Jefferson Jr. is lucky were with him and not against him.
If only there was a way to compromise...this issue. |
| Date | 01:15:18, January 30, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | We feel no need to compromise seeings you are the only party who wishes to turn Indrala into an empty headed Jingoist Christian State. On the contrary, we would ask you to withdraw this bill before you embarrass yourself even further.
Do not worry Thomas Jefferson Jr., the only one who made a link between burning a piece of material and burning a human being is HerAdite. |
| Date | 03:48:29, January 30, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | In that case we ask to withdraw this bill-and no harm done.
We would also like to state to Mr. Jefferson we were never planning to burn you but were using it in a metaphor. |
| Date | 05:15:47, January 30, 2006 CET |
From | Radical Democratic Party | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | OOC: Frankly, this bill should go to the vote, even if the Heradite Party also votes against. Some debates are so funny that they should be saved for posterity. |
| Date | 05:29:20, January 30, 2006 CET |
From | Heradite Yunitou | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | (OOC: I have moved it up to Vote but I won't vote in it) |
| Date | 12:41:22, January 30, 2006 CET |
From | Liberal Party of Indrala | To | Debating the Patriotic Act | | Message | It would have been fitting if the HerAdites' added a restriction on burning heads of state in the bill description but it is too late now. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 0 |
| no | Total Seats: 89 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 11 |
| Random fact: The people in your nation don't like inactive parties. When you often abstain from voting for a bill, they will dislike your party and your visibility to the electorate will decrease significantly. Low visibility will means you are likely to lose seats. So keep in mind: voting Yes or No is always better than Abstaining. |
| Random quote: "Politics is the art of postponing decisions until they are no longer relevant." - Henri Queuille |