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Bill: 4135 Militia Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Parti Democratiqué Populaire
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 4136
Description[?]:
| Parti de Renevoullement de Kanjor sees the survival of democracy as crucial. The République has a history of tyrannical governments and citizens rising to overthrow their restrictive and authoritarian overlords. With this in mind, the PRK recognizes the importance of citizens being able to organize themselves in Citizens' Militias as a counterweight to the government. Citizens must be able to organize themselves if the Chaos of 4098-4114 is not to repeat itself in the near or distant future. We understand the concerns and the implications that legalizing militias would have - the PRK's main concern is a terrorist threat of minority Ahmadi cells, fascists or authoritarian leftists. That is the reason why we want to legalize militias - but only under the conditions that they are in line with the Canrillaişe constitution and the principles of Liberty. With this law in effect, the police would have the authority to disband militias and prosecute members, if the militias in question are found to be a threat to democracy. The benefits of citizens having private military like organizations would be that more of them would be able to pose a substantial counterweight in a future struggle against tyranny, health benefits as well as people of weapons or military interest being able to pursue their interests more locally in a community without having to join Kanjor's armed forces. Parti de Renevoullement de Kanjor suggests to the members of the Sénate to approve the bill, proposing the following: |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government's position on paramilitaries.
Old value:: Paramilitaries are illegal and the recognized government may intervene freely to stop any possible activity.
Current: Paramilitaries are illegal and the recognized government may intervene freely to stop any possible activity.
Proposed: Paramilitaries are allowed but are heavily regulated by the government.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 09:01:55, December 15, 2016 CET | From |  Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | The PRK strongly advances our political companions to read the descriptive text of this bill, as from a revolutionary point of view it makes sense. |
| Date | 10:20:41, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Républicain | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Ideologically we completely agree with this legislation. However, this was the law until very recently and the actions of Kanjoran paramilitaries in other nations led to Kanjor almost being dragged into war as the foreign government blamed the government for the actions of the offending paramilitary. We worry this could happen again. |
| Date | 11:28:08, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | We consider the concerns to be legitimate. However, as there is an anti-terror structure and apparatus already in place, we see that the state has the necessary tools to prevent such a situation. What the militias did on the least, borders, or in other cases IS, terrorism against other countries. If there is reason to believe specific militias are undermining national security by provoking other nations, this bill stating the militias are regulated, does not prevent the authorities to terrorist mark the militias, prosecute the members engaging in criminal activity and disband the terrorist organizations. What government policy otherwise should be in our view, should paramilitary organizations from Kanjor engage in foreign terrorist activity, is that we should offer the country in question all the support we can. We do not believe the majority of our citizens would engage themselves in militias - likewise we do not believe that the majority of militia members would engage in malicious activities hurting property, individuals, communities or other nations. That would be illegal. With all the tools necessary being available to authorities and government, as well as the low risk of this - we recommend all the parties to vote for a passing of the bill. Thank you! |
| Date | 18:28:14, December 15, 2016 CET | From | PLAK | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Our older party leadership, had misused these laws, and as such we cannot support this measure. We know we won't use them, but the actions of paramilitaries, as we believe, will hurt democracy, because of their possible use in intimidating in polling stations, and violence that they can cause to people or groups with ideological differences. |
| Date | 20:01:24, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Why does the government seem to believe that militias will be able to do as they please, ignoring the law of the land? No party in the legislature is anarchist - I take it we all believe in the rule of law executed by a government, and as specified many times, the existence of militias will be entirely regulated. Is there strong reason to believe "Militia A" consists of radical idoelogical fanatics, the police will be able to reject giving them a permit. Intimidation at polling stations is considered terrorism and thus will give the authorities reason to act. Authorities will be able to withdraw militia permits should the militias break the law and threaten national security and security of our citizens. The law is still the law - which all citizens must (and luckily most do), respect. The PRK has full confidence in the citizens of Kanjor and our just security apparatus as well as justice system. |
| Date | 20:08:04, December 15, 2016 CET | From | PLAK | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Do to previous actions by paramilitaries, from Kanjor, that nearly caused us war, it is in our best interest to keep them illegal, and as such we do not want to run the risk of a paramilitary running rouge. if we take their permit away, they still exist, and they are still armed. There's too many risks involved. |
| Date | 20:10:59, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | As to historical corruption in your party - it is good that you have restored order and decency in your party (we hope), but that is precisely the reason the PRK believes in small government. We do not believe states should have big power over things because if there are people running so many aspects, essentially making decisions for 100 000 000 people and thus being important, corrupting such people has too great of an effect on the whole society. We believe in a society where individuals are to voluntarily make their decisions and take responsibility for them. |
| Date | 20:15:41, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | We have already presented arguments why this would not be an issue. The law of the land is more important than militias, as militias are private organizations under strict supervision by the state (which the responsibilities we believe of is, to prevent violence and protect citizens). The state already has all the tools necessary to prevent militias from running amoc, so we see no reasonable reason to keep them illegal. We do not believe all people who have an interest in military training and/or weapons are ideological fanatics. Maybe they simply care about democracy or just love to blow stuff up and engage in physical training. The law would be very clear, and the authorities would as in every case, have to work based on the law. No terrorists or fanatics would even be able to obtain a militia permit. |
| Date | 20:19:35, December 15, 2016 CET | From | PLAK | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | There was no historical corruption in our party, it was one segment, headed by one person, and it was one instance, and if you noticed, right after the issue we cleaned house, such accusations are rather serious, and given the evidence and our actions, it is untrue. Militias have harmed our society, and international standing, and making them legal, will only continue such. |
| Date | 20:39:05, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | It is not an accusation when coming from the party historically responsible, itself. You admitted that your old party LEADERSHIP (not leader) misused laws, you admitted of effectively your party having a historical role in corruption - as it is ILLEGAL to misuse laws. Why can you admit to it but we can not mention it without being labeled as liars? SOME militias have harmed our society - yes. Have all of them done so? While we share the concern of terrorism domestically and against other countries, again, we can not understand in what way that would be a substantial threat since Article 1 clearly states that militias are regulated by law and authorities? Authority figures in the police and other branches of the security apparatus, as well as in the justice system, are subject to the same laws - they are to work based on the anti-terrorist laws our country has (be it terrorism against other countries or against our own). We would like a more detailed explanation of what the issue is. We are assuming all parties here want the République to survive as long as possible? |
| Date | 20:45:58, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | It is not an accusation when coming from the party historically responsible, itself. You admitted that your old party LEADERSHIP (not leader) misused laws, you admitted of effectively your party having a historical role in corruption - as it is ILLEGAL to misuse laws. Why can you admit to it but we can not mention it without being labeled as liars? SOME militias have harmed our society - yes. Have all of them done so? While we share the concern of terrorism domestically and against other countries, again, we can not understand in what way that would be a substantial threat since Article 1 clearly states that militias are regulated by law and authorities? Authority figures in the police and other branches of the security apparatus, as well as in the justice system, are subject to the same laws - they are to work based on the anti-terrorist laws our country has (be it terrorism against other countries or against our own). We would like a more detailed explanation of what the issue is. We are assuming all parties here want the République to survive as long as possible? |
| Date | 20:49:26, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | What the arguments against are based on are essentially hypothetical scenarios. The PRK sees no reason for abolishing our nation's military - as a hypothetical threat to security is a devastating civil war or bloody coup, if anti-socialist military leaders were to resort to anti-democratic methods. This could however be an argument to abolish the military with the same logic - it might be a threat to democracy (just like the military was under the years of the dictatorship!). |
| Date | 20:53:52, December 15, 2016 CET | From | PLAK | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | For one, it is not corruption of the WHOLE party, as you have said. it was one Individual who headed one area, and had ONE incident. That one person was corrupt, not our entire party, and given your logic, Ms. Perry, who had nothing to do with the indecent, and actually called the initial investigation into the matter, by your logic, she's corrupt, because she belongs to our grand party. So yes, it is Untrue, that our party is corrupt. Two, We cannot risk war, over some paramilitaries actions. Its happened before, under the SAME laws you are proposing. Three, yes, everyone wants Kanjor to survive, but paramilitaries, nearly destroyed us. Senator Michaël Duret Etat of La Tondelle |
| Date | 21:14:41, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Républicain | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Senators! Let us remember where we are! The République has survived twenty one years without democracy devolving into a brawl! I would ask that we continue that streak! The actions of the former Socialist militia did represent a threat to our nation but corruption? No one paid the Socialist militia to stur things up in Beluzia. An incident of over enthusiastic Revolutionary zeal that got out of hand. An incident we must guard against but no reason to discount the legitimate concerns of the PPSK in this debate. There are many loyal citizens who we are sure do want to take up arms in defence of the République and the Revolution and this is commendable. But we ask what defence do we have against further over zealous behaviour? Surely parties and other political groups should not be able to set up their own militias? After all, what if we see counter-revolutionary militias develop? This bill proposes regulations on militias but does not spell out what these would be. I would ask us all to calm down and debate rationally. Is reason not a principle of the Revolution? - Julien Danton Senator from Martois (former Premiere Ministre) |
| Date | 21:19:26, December 15, 2016 CET | From | PLAK | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | I thank you sir, i wasn't attempting to get out of hand, but corruption is a very serious accusation, and i must defend my party. We, as well as i, have pointed out that it was our fault yes, but the one person i charge of the paramilitary was held responsible, and was expelled from having any party seat. We took full responsibility, and I simply do not understand why these attacks have to be made against us. Senator Michaël Duret Etat of La Tondelle |
| Date | 22:32:02, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | We do not understand how, what we said, means "Ms. Perry is corrupt"? We just said there has been corruption problems in the past in your party, as you've also admitted to. Do not label us having said things we have not, please. I'm sure there are some members in our party who are vegetarian, left-handed or religious - I am certain that there are people in the party leadership who prefer vanilla ice cream over chocolate ice cream, weirdly enough. However, guilt-by-association isn't exactly an effective argument, so concluding all individuals in a party are one way just because some are, is very foreign to my take on logic. Parti Progressiste Socialiste seems to think differently of my logic, sadly enough. Responding to some of the talking points, there is no need to spell out exactly what would constitute a threat to the national security - that is up to the police and secret police to make judgement of. We already have anti terrorism laws, we already have limited government surveillance, we already have laws preventing mentally ill or people with criminal records from obtaining weapons. The descriptive text does by the way mention some examples of extremist groups, such as Ahmadi cells and other religious extremists, communist and fascist terrorists. We see the current legislation as enough and if the authorities express difficulties in their mission, we are open to accordingly fund the security apparatus and police more, hire more staff and make sure they have all resources they need to keep stability in our nation. To conclude: we have this law that allows restrictions, we have anti-terror law, we have our constitution and we have our reliable authorities as defense against overly zealous behavior. Nothing with this law obliges the police to approve of a militia in question if authorities review and find it to be a threat. Nothing obliges the militias unconditional rights either - if they engage in acts destructive against society or communities. The militias have responsibilities. Thank you. -Philippe Moreau, chair of the Parti de Renevoullement de Kanjor |
| Date | 22:33:47, December 15, 2016 CET | From | Parti Democratiqué Populaire | To | Debating the 4135 Militia Act |
| Message | Correction: this is not a law, but a law proposal. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 159 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 591 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Party organizations are eligible for deletion if they are over 50 in-game years old, do not have at least 1 active member or are historically significant and possess historically significant information. |
| Random quote: "Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage." - Niccolo Machiavelli |