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Bill: Population Control Policy Reform 4151
Details
Submitted by[?]: Fortschrittsvereinigung
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 4152
Description[?]:
| A growing issue if you'll pardon the pun, is the sheer growth in population around the world. Overpopulation is a drain on the system, and a drain on the planet. We don't believe we should have harsh laws forbidding a family growing beyond a certain extent, but we believe if a family is going to continue to grow, they should at least be able to roughly pay for it. Our party's proposal would be to reduce child benefits gradually and progressively (ooc: reducing child benefits and taxing a couple per child will basically have the same effect, and it's the closest proposal I could find), the reduction in child benefit will start from the fourth child of the family. We see this as a necessary step to control Terra's population whilst not being overly cruel or authoritarian. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's stance on population control.
Old value:: The government does not engage in population control.
Current: The government does not engage in population control.
Proposed: The government taxes children beyond a certain number per couple.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:14:37, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, utter, utter nonsense, our economy is fine, our people are fine. We do not have an issue with overpopulation as our economy is able to provide job for majority of our people and provide best service when it comes to medical care or education and therefore we will oppose this unecessary proposal. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler der Dorvisch Republik. |
| Date | 18:23:15, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Fortschrittsvereinigung | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | State Chancellor, I believe it is in fact you that is speaking "utter, utter nonsense". Our health services and education is still underfunded. By freeing up some funds by making sure large families can roughly afford to have as many children as they want, which is not even a particularly radical idea, we will in turn have more money to put into our health and our education. In addition to this, the world in general is simply suffering from overpopulation! Joseph Mikaelson, Progress Party Leader |
| Date | 18:35:56, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, It seems as you do not understand the meaning of procreation and population growth... We will never support this bill, this bill which would impose tax on having a big family. The world is not suffering with overpopulation and our economy is suffering either. I want to remind you that the current level of funding has been approved by the society as more and more private health care institutions are now operating providing the best quality service for people. The same with the educational institutions. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler der Dorvisch Republik. |
| Date | 18:44:59, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Libertären Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, If you want to stop overpopulation, get rid of child benefits all together. We could support that. Arend Beyer, chairman of the libertären partei. |
| Date | 18:50:18, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Beyer, but let's start with the fact that our country is not experiencing overpopulation right now. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler dDR. |
| Date | 18:56:03, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Libertären Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Tancredi, As I see it, we would have overpopulation when our country can not support the amount of people in the country. I dont see that at the moment. So yes, our country does not experience overpopulation. Arend Beyer, chairman of the libertären partei. |
| Date | 18:57:21, January 15, 2017 CET | From | DEMOS! FDZ | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Centralost party want to control population..... Mary Himler, FDZ |
| Date | 19:03:42, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Fortschrittsvereinigung | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | State Chancellor, Overall, the entire world is overpopulated; there are crowds of people in many places, even what were once modest towns are experiencing surges in the population they cannot handle. Mr Beyer, you think progressively cutting child benefits increasingly as families grow, and yet you think completely cutting child benefit fully is acceptable? Young families starting up deserve a fighting chance! The members of the State Council seem shocked by this proposal, all it is, is making sure large families can afford a large family. Whilst we are supportive of a basic welfare state, we feel that some families producing large numbers of kids then leaching off the tax payer for them is unacceptable. As for you former President Himler, I'd thank you to pronounce your words a fair bit better! Joseph Mikaelson, Leader of the Progress Party |
| Date | 19:44:04, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Libertären Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, Why should people that dont want any children pay child benefits for people that cant afford any children? And the world can be overpopulated, but should our people pay the price for overpopulation in other countries? That doesnt seem fair to me. Arend Beyer, chairman of the libertären partei |
| Date | 19:44:58, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, We tax people so that we can see if they are able to sustain a family... that's interesting way of running a country but we pass on this solution and I say this once again, we oppose this measure. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler dDR. |
| Date | 19:57:48, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Fortschrittsvereinigung | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr Beyer, Because someone has to. Everyone is entitled to a family, even the poor. However we believe it is unacceptable to KEEP having children if you cannot afford them. We have to start somewhere Mr Beyer. As for the State Chancellor, need I remind you our proposal is to do it progressively, thus it won't be a clean cease in child welfare if a family exceeds four children. Joseph Mikaelson, Leader of the Progress Party |
| Date | 20:15:01, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Libertären Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr Mikaelson, Entitled to a family? If the poor really want a family they can still pay for it. When other poor people dont want any children, they still have to pay for the children of other poor people. Why should WE start somewhere? It is not our fault nor our problem. If other countries are overpopulated it does barely affect our people. Arend Beyer, chairman of the libertären partei |
| Date | 23:19:35, January 15, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, I cannot believe my own ears, how someone who's been elected as a member of this distinguished council can even think of this kind of policies? "Entitled to a family", "tax children" this sound more than absurd... This does not put you or your party anywhere in the center of the political scene or to the right side of it.... it puts you and your party in the row of communistical policies. Progressively... progressively ban people from having children. Hold me or I'll fall... From this place I want to thank every one in this Councill who voted against this sick, authoritarian proposal. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler der Dorvisch Republik. |
| Date | 14:00:57, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Liberalen Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | "It is unacceptable to keep having children if you cannot afford it" I would much rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending a too small degree of it. Dorvik is near the very bottom of the list when it comes to population. It is not needed to create a problem where there is none. This is simply a fear tactic to make people afraid of children, and it is also propaganda. Anti people propaganda, strange, really. Total bullshit Nick Leader of the Liberalen Arbeiterpartei |
| Date | 14:01:14, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Liberalen Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | OOC: nick Hochmeister said that, not nick |
| Date | 20:12:29, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Fortschrittsvereinigung | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr Beyer, Here's me and my party being branded "communists" left right and centre, yet your party openly supports more extreme, harsher policies and has not once been attacked elsewhere on the State Council. As for us starting somewhere, even if we do have one of the lower populations in Terra, it is still high. State Chancellor and Nick Hochmeister, Your screamish rhetoric won't wash here. Once again State Chancellor you randomly blast our party for being communistic despite us in some places going further with privatization than your very own party! The media for example, you have dedicated yourself to its continued nationalization, a non essential industry. And we're the communists? Joseph Mikaelson, Leader of the Progress Party |
| Date | 20:15:05, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, I beg you pardon? Continued nationalization? Subsidizing one broadcasting company does not mean that we are going to nationalize every media industry in our country... You might have had hit your head or something, I am affraid.... Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler. |
| Date | 20:28:26, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Liberalen Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | If the KU hasn't been blamed, then you can't be? We have a surplus of over two billion DDOs. Our economy is in perfect shape and we should only spend more Nick Hochmeister |
| Date | 20:34:18, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Fortschrittsvereinigung | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | State Chancellor, Nonetheless, a step closer to communism than our party is comfortable with. It is utterly unnecessary. Ah yes Mr Hochmeister, spend MORE, always the answer. 2bn that could be put into our healthcare and education? No, lets spend it on television and give the rest away to other countries! Bravo indeed sir. *sarcastic applause* Joseph Mikaelson, Leader of the Progress Party |
| Date | 20:36:36, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Liberalen Partei | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Television isn't in the question, and neither are other countries. By bringing up weak points of other parties, you think yours is getting credibility. Also, I would ask you to be more professional and like a clown. Nick Hochmeister, Leader of the LAP |
| Date | 20:40:09, January 16, 2017 CET | From | Konservative Union | To | Debating the Population Control Policy Reform 4151 |
| Message | Mr. Mikaelson, the national broadcasting companies both radio and television cost us about 190mn DDO a year. It is an expense we can bear. It provides our citizens with non biased information and I remind you that both institution work on the idea of PPP which makes it one of the most reliable source of information in our country. We see no reason to cut spendings on the broadcasting companies or to increase spendings on healthcare and edcation as more and more private institutions are being established and providing superb service for our citizens. Remind me, you are against allowing private schools and hospitals to function freely? Then it gives me reason to fully justified call you a communist. Tim Tancredi, Staatskanzler DDR. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||||
| yes | Total Seats: 24 | |||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 458 | |||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: In Culturally Protected nations, it is the responsibility of players to ensure the candidate boxes on their Party Overview screens are filled in with appropriate names. If a player is allotted seats in a Cabinet bill and has not filled in names for the relevant candidate position, then the program will automatically fill in the positions with names which might not necessarily be appropriate for the Cultural Protocols. |
| Random quote: "A theory that seems to explain everything is just as good at explaining nothing"- Christopher Hitchens |