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Bill: VBS - Anti Subsides Act
Details
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2185
Description[?]:
| Because we are no communist nation |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government agricultural and farming subsidies policy.
Old value:: The government allows local governments to craft agricultural subsidy policy.
Current: Agricultural crops which are considered beneficial to the enviroment or to the continued ecological safety of the state are subsidized.
Proposed: The government denies subsidy assistance to farmers.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:48:22, February 11, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Agricultural policy, being tied to land, is best left to local governments. If Korganians do not want subsidies to farmers, then they ought to elect local governments that feel that way. Its not up to the national government to stick their nose into a purely local matter. |
| Date | 16:27:56, February 12, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Yes it is If Korgana gives subsides to its farmers, while Shadar doesn't, it is unfair concurrence, I want to avoid that |
| Date | 20:08:36, February 12, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | It isn't unfair - the taxes of Shadarians would be lower, thereby attracting more people and businesses. Therefore, agricultural policy ought to be left up to the provinces. |
| Date | 22:01:20, February 12, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Indeed, assuming all other spendings are equal, the taxes for Shadarians will be lower. BUT, that doesn't mean the taxes for farmers are lower, and it is nearly impossible the lower taxes for farmers compensate the subsides in Korgana. Also, subsides are bad, they keep companies that should have died alive, wich creates an unhealthy economic situation [Fragment of a VBS-ssp discussion concerning protectionism: VBS: Do you think it's the governements job to try to protect Selucian companies against international companies? ssp: NO, I'm not a baby sitter] |
| Date | 03:13:22, February 13, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | I disagree with subsidies - but on purely local matters, it is not up to the national government to legislate. It is up to the local governments. I therefore will not overreach my bounds, and regulate something that the national government has no business regulating. |
| Date | 10:06:58, February 13, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | *You disagree with it, but you don't want to make sure the opposite happens? Pretty hypocrit, as always |
| Date | 14:52:17, February 13, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Hypocrasy is harping about the rights of the provinces for decades, as you have, and then taking rights away from those very same provinces. I am not going to babysit the provinces and do their jobs for them. This is purely local, and therefore, they should legislate it. |
| Date | 16:03:43, February 13, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | This is NOT local at all, this has nothing to do with local governements I want rights from all provinces, YOU boycot me in that, now you blame ME? Way to go ssp, do you think it would be fair if a province that is not subsided should have concurrence from a province that is subsided? |
| Date | 18:30:28, February 13, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | I believe in decentralizing so that local governments can legislate. You believe in skewing democracy by making votes from smaller regions more powerful than those from larger ones, and then NOT decentralizing power to those local governments. This is entirely local. Land is entirely local, I see no overriding national issue. If a province subsidizes agriculture, taxes will be higher, making that province less competitive. It is a silly thing to do, but not up to me to stop. Its up to teh voters of each local government to prevent it. |
| Date | 20:39:57, February 13, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Economy is entirerly national, I don't see what local governements have to do with it. Quote ssp: If a province subsidizes agriculture, taxes will be higher, making that province less competitive I just denied that! If 50% of the population is a farmer, and I give them 100 SEN, I will have to raise taxes for 100 SEN. I will probably do that by asking 50 SEN to one half of the population (the farmers) and the other 50 SEN to the other half of the population (the non-farmers). This would mean farmers get 50 SEN extra, while others will lose 50 SEN. This would make farmers in this province in a stronger postion to concurrate with farmers in other provinces, wich is totally unfair, we are all Selucians and we should have the same rights and chances |
| Date | 21:43:13, February 13, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | No developed nation on earth has 50% of its population doing farming. However, I'll indulge you on your extremist position. Under your ecample, non farmers will move to other provinces, as will the non-farming businesses. Without other people left in the nation to subsidize farming, the subsidies will fail entirely (as will the provincial economy). The shrewed provinces who chose not to recklessly subsidize anything will benefit by attracting business. That being said, it is not up to the National government to regulate an entirely local matter. |
| Date | 23:49:40, February 13, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | *I was giving an example, didn't you get that? !d!ot Are you going to move to another province if your province raises taxes 1% higher than other provinces? Do you think ALL the people would do that? In my REAL LIFE country, taxes are about the highest in the world. Still, there are companies and people, it seems like your theory just failed Even if we assume your explanation is possible, do you think we should allow a lunatic-province governement destroy 1/5 of Selucias economy? |
| Date | 05:48:37, February 14, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | YOur analysis is flawed. If a PROVINCE within your country had a radically different tax structure, it would be easy for citizens to move to another province. A well known example is the Canadian province of Quebec, which, despite a huge land mass and tremendous natural economic potential, has suffered economically from a high tax rate that has pushed head offices to other provinces (notably, the lower tax provinces of ONtario and Alberta) and has caused a mass of migration to other parts of the nation. The economically depressed and high tax Atlantic provinces have also suffered from the same trend. Moving to another NATION, as your example suggests,is quite different, as immigration laws and language considerations come into play. We should allow our provinces and its people determine how best to govern over local matters. I have faith in the citizens to do the right thing in local elections. We are doing our nation a service by just butting out of local matters, and concentrating on matters of national importance. |
| Date | 17:04:48, February 14, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Well, coinciderally, there is a nation that has about exactly the same culture and language as my own (for some hisorical mistake, a big nation was split into two nations). The other nation has a little lower taxes. Still, there are people and companies in MY nation! your theory is bullshit |
| Date | 17:08:35, February 14, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | You mean Belgium? To suggest that Belgium is culturally and linguisticly the same as the Netherlands is overstating it a bit. The French speaking half of Belgium would take exception. Also, the Belgians make way better beer. My theory is still valid - my theory has no national boundaries to worry about - yours does, which is a huge difference. |
| Date | 12:20:29, February 15, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | *You finally got it ;-) As you should know, there isn't a French speaking HALF, but a french speaking 35% The truth is there are 2 totally differnet cultures, with only a tiny connection In the South, the language is French, the Socialist are the largest party, they have an unemployment of 15% and they want to keep the "Belgium" construction, they like the king (about 75% is pro) In the North, the language is Dutch, the Nationalist party (main theme: an independant Flanders) is the largest party, we have an unemployment rate of 7.5% and we don't like the king (about 50% is pro, but that group is getting smaller every year) The culture in Flanders (the north) is very much the same as the one in the Netherlands. The culture in the South is very much like the one in France (larger differences than North-Netherlands, but pretty close) According to me, the splitting of Belgium is the solution, but that's not the discussion, it was about people should move to another nation if taxes are too high, and this is just not done *Indeed, the beer is the best in the world: Stella Artois, Leffe, Interbrew (main part of Inbev, largest brewer in the world) etc. while the Netherlands have Heineken (wich really sucks) |
| Date | 14:51:03, February 15, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Grolsch is ok. Beyond that, Dutch beer reminds me too much of German Beer. Tastes great on a hot day, but pretty bland. Belle Vue Kriek, Belle Vue Framboise, Stella, Leffe, Fruli, Chimay, Huyghe, Petrus - its all good stuff. |
| Date | 15:19:04, February 15, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | You forgot Delirium Tremens, Duvel (my personal favorite), Jupiler, Palm, Westvleteren (officially the best beer in the world), Malheur (brewed 5 km from my home), Hoegaarden, Kwak, Lambik, Bock, Judas and many others There are over 600 |
| Date | 15:40:19, February 15, 2006 CET | From | Selucian Sovereignty Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | My Belgian beer selection is pretty limited where I am. I've got Duvel on my list, as they sold it here for about a six month period two years ago, and Hoegarden is available on tap in the bar below my office - it is widely available here. I've never tried the rest you've mentioned. (Beer is my hobby - I've tried 444 different brands to date, but only 17 from Belgium). |
| Date | 15:44:50, February 15, 2006 CET | From | VBS Party | To | Debating the VBS - Anti Subsides Act |
| Message | Beer is my hobby too, but mainly Stella in large quantities on a Thursday Night (or the first weeks of a University Semester every night ;-) ) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 200 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 129 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 246 |
| Random fact: Don't put "the" as the first word in your party name, because when parties are referred to in news reports, their names are preceded with "the", e.g. the [Socialist Party] has lost. |
| Random quote: "It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion." - Joseph Goebbels |