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Bill: Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War
Details
Submitted by[?]: Whig Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 4198
Description[?]:
| The Civil War must be ended, for for years the war has destroyed our nation, for the sake of Rutania we must reach a compromise, I can no longer bear it on my conscience to inflict the evils of war on my fellow Rutanian, I can no longer stand to hear talks of brother killing brother, for this reason I wish to offer conditional surrender to the Republican forces. In order to heal the wounds of this nation and implement national cohesion a great reform must be made, we must reorganize the structure of the government in order to prevent the rise of dangerous partisanship, and to promote national unity. Our current system has given the Commonwealth a head of state that to often doesn't reflect the will of the Peoples Assembly leading to inevitable partisanship and the rise of extremist. I watched this happen in 4172 with Gerrard Winstanley, the mans opinion was dismissed by the Peoples Assembly at the time, then again it happened with Sam Lawton and Elmer Clark. This all lead to the people growing disillusioned towards the office. A stronger more unifying system must be set up. We propose opening debate for a new constitutional convention, with changes to reflect the proposed changes in this bill. Thomas Barron Royalist Diplomatic Envoy |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Titles of nobility.
Old value:: No titles of nobility are granted or recognised, their use is forbidden.
Current: Titles of nobility may be granted only by the Head of State.
Proposed: Titles of nobility may be granted only by the Head of State.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Structure of the executive branch.
Old value:: The Head of State and Head of Government are two separate officials.
Current: The Head of State is hereditary and symbolic; the Head of Government chairs the cabinet.
Proposed: The Head of State is also Head of Government.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The title of the head of government, who chairs the cabinet.
Old value:: Prime Minister
Current: Morair Seansalair (Lord Chancellor)
Proposed: President
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The length of a legislative and executive term, in months. Should be between 24 and 72.
Old value:: 72
Current: 60
Proposed: 48
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The appointment of mayors.
Old value:: Citizens elect their mayor directly in a local election.
Current: Citizens elect their mayor directly in a local election.
Proposed: The municipal councils exercise mayoral powers.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 22:40:45, April 18, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Open to debate |
| Date | 22:56:18, April 18, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We would of course demand a full pardon for the 'conflict' -Thomas Barron Royalist Diplomatic Envoy |
| Date | 23:00:28, April 18, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7224&p=113441#p113441 |
| Date | 00:16:40, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We cannot support only allowing the head of state to propose a cabinet coalition. However, we are open to allowing some limited, non-hereditary form of nobility--a Senate, maybe?--IF the royalists agree to ratify the International Democratic Republican Alliance treaty. |
| Date | 00:22:00, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We should point that we are only speaking for the CRL--we haven't consulted our coalition partners. |
| Date | 00:22:59, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | That treaty would explicitly forbid the granting of titles of nobility, if that treaty was revised to prevent nobility from being forbidden we would support it.. |
| Date | 00:24:04, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Also if the President is to be the head of government then they must be inclined in any cabinet coalition. |
| Date | 00:27:04, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Included* |
| Date | 00:47:51, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | 1) Indeed, and ideally we would keep HoS and HoG separate, but at least it would give each and every party some bargaining power, and speed up the negotiation process. 2) We would agree to amend the treaty to allow for the granting of non-hereditary titles. 3) If the head of state has the power to grant titles, we would stipulate that the Assembly must confirm such appointments. |
| Date | 01:11:58, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Adam King: "The RP agrees with the CLR and most of the Reforms, however there is no need to change the Capital from Vanderburg. As of the Senate Perposal, if it is agreed to create one, there should be a more in-depth discussion on how it will function." |
| Date | 01:30:14, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: I envisaged something like the Canadian Senate: 1) The President appoints a slate of five nominees--1 each from each of the five regions of Rutania--who are then confirmed by the Assembly. 2) The President can appoint one slate per term. 3) The Senate cannot exceed 100 members. 4) A Senator serves until he/she is 75 years old (that way the first slate appointed can age out, and a new President can always appoint a new slate once the Senate reaches capacity). 5) Senators have the power to review legislation, propose amendments, form committees, lead investigations--basically do anything the Assembly does except vote or veto. (Basically, it just opens up interesting RP possibilities, as there are obviously no game mechanics for another legislative body). 6) Senators are provided with a salary and pension, and are entitled to use the honorific "The Honorable..." for the rest of their lives. |
| Date | 02:07:23, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: Thats what I was thinking too. Adam King: "The RP supports this frame work for a Senate. However we believe two more points should be added. 1. There should be a minimum age of 30 This is to ensure that the members have had a aproperate amount of life experance 2. A veto Power should be given to the New Upper house, as to add a check and balance in our system. As seen under our current system there we not enough checks and balances and Elections simply flip flopped from one extreme to another." |
| Date | 02:13:48, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We couldn't support giving an un-elected body full veto power, but they could have the ability to delay legislation. (OOC: plus there isn't really any way to do a veto in-game.) |
| Date | 02:20:16, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: If we did it a veto it would have to be RP and the Honers systems. The CLR is mistaken they would be elected through representation, first through the Presendent then through the Voting of the Assenbly. |
| Date | 02:22:24, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We have amended this compromise bill. We would like to classify the traits language would need to not just allow nobility but forbid the banning of nobility, and the granting of titles. As for the Senate, we favour this concept, however we would support a smaller body, no more than 15 members, 3 reserved for each state. OOC: to make the RP of keeping up with members feasible. Also we request it be called the Grand Council, or Senatorial Council and members given the honorific title of Lord. We would prefer the seats are held for life. As for powers of the body we agree with everything before stated however we would add a stipulation in the constitution requiring approval of the Senatorial Council as well as 3/4 approval of the Peoples Assembly to declare war. |
| Date | 02:23:47, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Clarify the treaty language* |
| Date | 02:35:07, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | I'm all for veto on the honors system. Something be written saying upon pay inactivation all their members die. |
| Date | 02:37:53, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | The RP would go with no less then 25 members. And decline on the powers to declare war. That power should only rest with the Assembly. |
| Date | 02:59:09, April 19, 2017 CET | From | New People's Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We support this and the idea of a Senate. |
| Date | 03:07:12, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We agree to 25 members, we shall move this bill to a vote and soon open a bill for a new constitution |
| Date | 03:20:25, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: 1) I think this is going beyond what my republican party would be comfortable with. We can go so far as to grant non-hereditary titles, but not to forbid banning them, and I don't think we would tolerate "lords" of any sort. We could do something like "Praetor" or "Tribune" or "Steward of the Commonwealth," if "Senator" isn't flavorful enough. 2) If we went with a veto, I think it would have to be something that was only invoked as a last resort, as in only something the controlling party/parties saw as completely beyond the pale--i.e., trying to install a monarchy, or establish a communist dictatorship, not a typical budget bill. 3) As for the size, the Senate would start out very small and only reach capacity after twenty elections. I just saw it as an opportunity to add some extra flavor to debates and newswires--"Senate investigates..." "Senator so-and-so indicated that"--rather than something to keep meticulous track of. Plus it gives the President something to do :) We could keep a page going of who's in the Senate, where they're from, and what their party is, but we wouldn't have to keep track of individual votes or anything. |
| Date | 03:37:31, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: I can keep up the page for the Senate if voted through |
| Date | 03:37:44, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Title of senator is fine, veto power could be restricted to constitutional changes. The Senate would still add flavor to debate being smaller, however it would be more like picking a supreme court justice since they are there until death or resignation and the body is small enough that appointments would matter, still giving the President something to do. Instead of an age cap how about an age minimum of 60 so that there should always be people coming of age to fire off. |
| Date | 03:38:28, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Without a guarantee that nobility won't be banned why should we agree to a ban on proposing a monarchy? |
| Date | 03:40:37, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Rutania Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | OOC: However if we do the Senate were really gonna need to Hammer out how it will function |
| Date | 03:51:32, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We would be fine with declaring a moratorium on trying to ban the nobility, but would be uncomfortable with putting such language in a treaty where it would apply to other nations. We could just declare a mutual moratorium that the Republicans don't touch the nobility (as long as it remains non-hereditary) and the Royalists don't try to restore the monarchy for at least the next four or so elections. |
| Date | 04:12:15, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We are fine with a moratorium but would be unable to ratify that treaty since it would forbid nobility and a monarchy |
| Date | 04:13:32, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | We still request a sooner executive by making them the head of government as this bill purposes |
| Date | 04:27:22, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Stronger executive* |
| Date | 04:36:09, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Civic Republican League of Rutania | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | As long as any party can propose a cabinet, we're fine with HoS and HoG being the same. |
| Date | 05:18:20, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | That proposal has been removed, any pay can propose a coalition |
| Date | 17:42:33, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | What are the objections of the DSPR? |
| Date | 17:46:13, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | It was my understanding that all parties agreed to the proposals to end the Civil war? |
| Date | 21:42:50, April 19, 2017 CET | From | Whig Party | To | Debating the Royalist/Republican Reform Compromise to end the Civil War |
| Message | Are there changes the Republicans wish to see to this bill? With this bills failure we cannot guarantee a peaceful end of hostilities. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 217 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 130 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 156 |
| Random fact: Zardugal is a nation based on the old Byzantine Empire, with a modern twist and the Esperanto language. Zardugal is located on the continent of Majatra. |
| Random quote: "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the US media." - Noam Chomsky |