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Bill: Religious Reform Bill - 4223
Details
Submitted by[?]: Patriotic Party of Baltusia
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 4234
Description[?]:
| Mr President, Members of Congress, It is quite clear that the people of this country have spoken - religion must be taken seriously, it must have a more prominent role in government decisions and any party that sidelines its importance will pay the political consequences. The rise of the Hosian Front over the last two years demonstrates that the blatant mocking of those who evangelise and the denying of faith from certain ultra-secular quarters is, as I long suspected, seen as offensive by many millions of people and completely misjudges the true moral and spiritual nature of this nation. However, it is how we embrace this mood of the people which will shape our country fundamentally in both the short and the long term. Do we continue to suppress it and almost certainly ensure that the move towards underground radicalism gathers even more pace? Or do we listen to the people and embrace moderate Hosian beliefs and put the brakes on that unnerving momentum towards fundamentalism? I choose the latter and it is why I ask parties to be pragmatic in their approach to this - particularly the centrist parties who have many latent religious supporters in their midst. Let us give the people what they want, which is the chance to call this country a Hosian nation, with a state church and archbishops appointed by the holy Luthorian Communion (OOC: Anglican) church. To not embrace this change would be shortsighted beyond belief and I will tell you why: there are many in my party who are already turning to the Hosian Front either openly - or behind closed doors. I have spoken to many in other parties, too, who feel that the faith of their supporters is not been taken seriously and believe their constituents will make a change come the next election. It is our early estimation that come the next election a religious bloc of parties - consisting of the Hosian Front and, let us say for argument's sake, the breakaway Hosian Patriots and other Hosian democrats - will hold at least 45 per cent of the seats in this House. That is enough to pull off a second round presidential election victory, and to be the biggest caucus in Congress, far outweighing the Left Bloc and the Centrist Alliance. However, it is our belief that this scenario will only come to pass if we fail to listen to the will of the people now. So I ask you to do the right thing or, if you prefer, do the expedient thing and approve the moderate religious laws we propose. I now open this up to debate and ask for amendments or otherwise before moving to vote. Randolph Gilbert Majority Speaker of the House |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy with respect to prayer in schools.
Old value:: Teacher-led prayers in schools are forbidden, except in religious schools.
Current: The government leaves this decision up to the schools themselves.
Proposed: The government leaves this decision up to the schools themselves.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning religions.
Old value:: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Current: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Proposed: There is an official state religion, but membership is completely voluntary.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:42:58, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Secularist, Socialist Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Mr Gilbert, Your data is fundamentally wrong, opinion polls suggest that just under 60% of Baltusians support Secularism in some form, this compares to just over 40% who do not. The vote share of the Hosian Front in the last election is just a small percent over that of those who identify as either fanatically religious or extremely religious, this combined with the fact that parties tend not to increase their vote share after their first election and that this issue is considered 'strong' in terms of importance by the majority of people, lead me to think it unlikely that the Hosian Front and say your party could ''be the biggest caucus in Congress, far outweighing the Left Bloc and the Centrist Alliance," the fact is you just don't have the numbers in terms of public support. (http://classic.particracy.net/viewopinions.php?nationid=22) I would be interested to hear where you found this information as you do not seemed to have cited any sources. Obviously we disagree with the content of your bill and believe that no amendment could in any way improve it as it is a violation of the values we hold dear. Patricia Gilbert (Religious and Moral Affairs Spokesperson of the Secularist, Socialist Party of Baltusia) |
| Date | 19:49:42, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Hosian Front | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Mrs Gilbert, A small percent? We got one in five voters in the last elections! The Patriots and Hosian together would not be far off of a majority, and would be far larger than either bloc. Danielle Sutton Leader of the Hosian Front |
| Date | 19:59:02, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Secularist, Socialist Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Madame Sutton, I said that your vote share was a small percent over the percent of people who identify as fanatically religious or extremely religious, I did not say that you yourself had a small percentage of the vote. Furthermore, the combined number of seats of you and the Patriots (going by this election) is less than a majority. The Centrist Alliance has more seats than you and the Patriots combined. If you are attempting to imply that the Patriots would leave the Centrist Alliance and only be a member of your extreme religious group then you would still not have a majority and thus a coalition of party blocs would have to be formed or another election called, either way you do not have the ability to govern. Patricia Gilbert (Religious and Moral Affairs Spokesperson of the Secularist, Socialist Party of Baltusia) |
| Date | 20:00:57, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Hosian Front | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Mrs Gilbert, I said we would 'not be far off' a majority.. And it is other parties that refuse to work with us, not the other way around. Danielle Sutton Leader of the Hosian Front |
| Date | 20:04:29, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Centrist Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Members of Congress, I believe that if the majority of the population is Hosiam, we should honor the religion if it does not effect the rights of the other people who do not believe. This bill does, this bill makes perfect sense to me and the deregulation aspects when it comes to private schools makes perfect sense! I will work with my party to support it President Gavin Kramer Centrist. |
| Date | 21:38:14, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Civic Party | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Members of Congress, As a newcomer to the political scene inside of Baltusia, I have been able to look over this bill with an impartial view. In my humble opinion as someone with no seats inside of Congress, this bill seems too much like it is imposing religion upon those who are not religious. If schools do not identify with any one religion, then praying within them seems like it could lead to bias among teachers and staff. Not every child who attends that school will be religious, and this could lead to some very controversial things happening during pray. I am within the belief that everybody should be allowed to practice whichever religion they choose and I can completely acknowledge the definite message that people in Baltusia have sent during the election, but this bill to me does not seem something which I personally would deem to be fair. Julie Robinson Leader of the Civic Party |
| Date | 10:52:18, June 29, 2017 CET | From | Patriotic Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Madame Gilbert, My data is a projection of what will happen in this country if we continue to stifle religion in the way we currently do. You are using statistics from our current situation - and I do not doubt them - but it does not represent what will come to pass, the current trend towards religion and the momentum of parties like the Hosian Front. I will stress again, my aim is to ensure that we embrace the inevitable change in a moderate and reasonable way. As President Kramer says this bill achieves that without forcing faith on people who do not believe. If we vote down this bill then my prediction is that come the next election my party and others will have haemorrhaged enough support from among disillusioned religious voters and we will have a big issue on our hands. On that note I will move this to vote. Randolph Gilbert Majority Speaker of the House |
| Date | 14:35:37, June 29, 2017 CET | From | United Democratic Party - Syndicalists | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Clearly the pro-religion parties have forgotten about the millions of atheists in Baltusia our voices must be heard as well religion should be tolerated but not allowed to spread Charle K Benn RAC |
| Date | 14:49:52, June 29, 2017 CET | From | Patriotic Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the Religious Reform Bill - 4223 |
| Message | Mr Benn, I will not be preached to about democracy by communists, who want to tear down our government institutions if they are ever given the chance! Furthermore, phrases like "religion should be tolerated but not allowed to spread" demonstrates how little freedom of choice actually means to you. Randolph Gilbert Majority Speaker of the House |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 366 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 234 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: In your Message Centre there is a really useful feature which allows you to subscribe to all of the bill debates in your nation. If you use that, then the "Watched Discussions" section will show you every time a new message has been posted on a bill. You can also subscribe to other pages you want to follow, such as your nation message-board, party organisations or bills outside your nation which you are interested in. |
| Random quote: "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: the communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'" - Phelps Adams |