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Bill: Elbian Occupation RP
Details
Submitted by[?]: Bloc Socialiste
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: July 2195
Description[?]:
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:23:21, March 04, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | The Tonton Militia has, with the assistance of the police and army in the region, occupied Elbian. They have set up an extensive defensive perimeter around the region, with early warning systems able to detect naval, missile, aerial, and ground attacks from anywhere within the Republic and even as far away as the Socialist Commonwealth of New Endralon. They have not aggressed against the following regions; the occupation was bloodless. Hours after gaining control of the region, the Tontons took many large public buildings and some privately owned buildings freely lent to them for the purpose of setting up nursery, primary, and secondary education, health care, civil defense, and public housing facilities. Public and private institutions, including but not limited to universities, businesses, clinics, schools, and the like have been allowed to continue operation, with the tax on corporations reduced to 5% and essential goods and services being provided tax-free. These are well-maintained, friendly institutions that allow all who desire to use them do so. All of the militia is concentrated in this province, making direct attacks impossible. The size of the force is slightly larger and much better equipped than the Dranland MIlitary.
In the first month of the occupation, the violent crime rate was reduced by 40%, the malnutrition rate was cut in half, and the amount of children attending school grew by around 10%. There have been two incidents where people have taken violent action against the militia, which resulted in their arrest and deportation to nearby Loren. People can leave and enter the region freely, though very few have elected to leave. Other than the two cases, the occupation has been extremely well-received by the people of Elbian, who have been living in abhorrent conditions since the founding of the nation. 70% of the population of Elbian is Afro-Dranlandian; historically, they have been the poorest in the region.
Local governments are allowed to continue legislation, and their decisions are actively enforced by the police within Elbian. The Dranland National Union and allied parties controlled two-thirds of all local assemblies before the occupation; those who were unfriendly to the DNU have not made any motion to secede or ask for military intervention. The Governor, Simbarashe Mumbengegwi, is a member of the DNU and has assured the citizens that their daily lives will not be impacted. He recognizes Elbian as a part of the sovereign Republic of Dranland, but says that the Tonton Militia will occupy the region until poverty and gang violence are no longer problems. The humanitarian wing of the Tonton Militia continues to operate across Dranland (their numbers are not included in the Tonton Militia's official numbers, but they are adequately equipped and trained to serve as combat troops). |
| Date | 20:56:46, March 04, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | OOC: Parties friendly to the DNU will pledge their support, unfriendly parties will voice their opposition, and abstentions will be treated as declarations of neutrality. |
| Date | 21:05:31, March 04, 2006 CET |
From | New Theta | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We oppose this occupation of Elbian, especially since the Founding CoS and the Terran CoS HQ and spiritual retreats are based in Elbian. We have heard of great civil unrest in this area of Dranland, and we disagree with the aggressive military might of Duvalier's private army and its force on Elbian citizens. |
| Date | 21:19:04, March 04, 2006 CET |
From | Dranland Progressive Conservatives | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We have a few problems with this. Why is there an organization with larger and better equipped than Dranland's military. Why is this organization under the control of a political party. Why is this organization under control of the current Chancellor? Why and how did they occupy this region? Why and how did they set up such a thorough defence for the region so quickly? How did they solve all of the world's problems in the region? Why were they allowed to deport people to another region? How did they reduce the tax rate for corporations and services?
Basically, what legal right does this Tonton Militia have to do all of this? The DNU and their militia have overstepped their bounds.
Not only that but the entire scenario is ridiculous. Out of nowhere, the militia occupies an entire region of 10 million people, turn it into a fortress, solve world hunger, and manage to not disrupt citizens' daily lives all in the span of one month? |
| Date | 00:49:21, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | In response to the Theta Party's concerns, we assure that the Church of Scientology will be given full protection under Dranland law. They will be recognised as a religion and their ministers will receive all immunities applicable to them. Despite past disputes, we will not aggress against the Church of Scientology and recognise their rights.
WIth regards to the SDPD's questions, we have been in preparation for such concerns. The militia has been in existance since 2182, and is privately funded by Renard Duvalier's personal fortune gained through foreign arms dealings and other business in foreign nations during his exile in New Endralon. Monsieur Duvalier wishes to give his reassurances that the militia, although representing the interests of the DNU, will not discriminate against ideologically opposed individuals. The Tonton Militia has been conducting peacekeeping, police, and humanitarian operations in Elbian for seven years, and has been prepared to mobilise for six. Our existing infrastructure has enabled us to move quickly and decisively against the enemies of poverty and hunger. The cooperation of the regional military and police forces provided crucial assistance to the establishment of a defensive perimeter around the nation; the nuclear, aerial and most ground forces have been prepared for and capable of such maneuvres for some time. The Tonton Militia has replaced corporate and sales taxes with private revenue gained through holdings overseas and has ensured that the sources of that revenue are stable enough for at least twenty years. We have not overhauled the system in place, merely changed a few management techniques.
To clarify on the statistics, malnutrition does not necessarily mean hunger. Malnutrition is a buildup of that hunger that has manifested itself in physical and mental conditions. The violent crime rate has sunk so much due to a stepped-up police presence.
We do not have legal precedent to support our actions, though we do cite the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a mandate enough to combat these disgusting conditions in Elbian until Dranland is so able. |
| Date | 03:07:22, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Dranland Progressive Conservatives | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | While conditions may be abhorrent and the militia is conducting humanitarian aid work, we still do not see the reason for them to set up a defence around one region that can repel attacks from across the ocean. |
| Date | 04:22:54, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | The security of the people of Elbian is a great priority. Smugglers and other criminals have long used the waters around Elbian to conduct illicit deeds. We will defend Elbian from the threats of poverty, hunger, crime, and death! |
| Date | 14:53:56, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | The Dranish Communists have the support of 21.1% of the electorate of Elbien, what on earth makes the Communists believe that 21.1% of the population, even with a well armed militia group, would be able to assert its authority over the Armed and Police Forces (remember this is a border region, thus would have a larger proportion of the Army in it), as well as asserting its authority over nearly 80% of the population who are not supporters of the Communists, including 19.7% who are backers of the Libertarians and Conservatives, and who would violently reject any Tonton nonsense.
ooc: Perhaps it would be far more realistic for the Communists to seize a city, or counties with Black (assuming Devalier is still a black nationalist)/Communist majorities? |
| Date | 14:55:14, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | Also there is no way that 70% of the population is Afro-Dranish, perhaps you should ask other parties their racial make up before coming up with extroadinary figures like that. |
| Date | 16:38:32, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | OOC: Sorry, typographical error. I meant to say that 30% is Afro-Drannish. Back to the maths, eh?
IC: The Dranland Communist Party and its predecessors have been establishing their foothold in Elbian for years. We have made our way into the Dranland Military in Elbian, and established a presence within the minds of most of the commanders and ground soldiers. We have concentrated an amount of soldiers roughly the size of the Dranland Military into a single region; no one who stands in our way will be given quarter. When the people throw us out, we will leave. Until then, we will continue to provide essential services that the people could not provide for themselves, security being one of them. We have yet to receive reprimands from other countries or the Defense or the Internal Affairs Ministers, and will continue to act in the same fashion until such time comes that we choose to revisit the issue. |
| Date | 16:45:16, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | National Progressive Party | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We believe it is time for the Tonton militia to begin withdrawing from this city. The police, in collaberation with the military have made leaps and bounds in our fight against crime. We have decimated the ranks of the most notorious gang members through a tough crackdown, what some of the weaker people would call "brutality". Our new anti-gang tactical forces even now are catching criminals and dealing with them appropriately. Through the strength shown by the leading members of the Internal Ministry, we have strengthened the police forces to deal with even the harshest of criminality, as well as give aid to communities in need. |
| Date | 16:54:17, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | New Theta | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | Whilst we applaud the humanitarian efforts of the DNU, we must reiterate that the Tonton control of Elbian is illegal and if this bill is defeated they should be made to leave immediately. We have a government in place, afterall, to look after and support the needs of the people, and the secular social betterment and outreach programs created by the CoS are common place in Elbian, and are extremely workable and effective. Narconon Elbian, for example has the highest success rate of any drug rehabilitation centre in the whole of Terra. |
| Date | 16:54:32, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We respect your assessment of the situation. However, we cannot comply with your request to abandon Elbian's people in need. To appease you, we will allow the Dranland Military to observe the Tonton Militia from within Elbian during this occupation, and encourage the acceptance of the federal government's jurisdiction over the region. |
| Date | 16:54:44, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | Cool, right-wing death squads in the form of black comunists. And we have been informed bu our supporters in Elbien that the racist Tontons have been carrying out a policy of scorched earth, ethnic cleansing and forced farm seizures in the north-west of Elbien. |
| Date | 17:17:18, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | New Theta | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We respect your willingness to aid the people of Elbian, however we continue to state our opposition to the Tonton occupation. However, we will leave it to the people to decide. Continued apathy to our party's ideological and political views in this area after the next election will result in the full relocation of the CoS of Terra HQ to another region. |
| Date | 17:19:23, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We deny these accusations and challenge the Conservatives to prove any human rights abuses on the part of our humanitarian mission. I am a product of these scorched earth, ethnic cleansing campaigns that took place in early Dranland when the first colonists arrived. To turn my back on my brothers, black, white, red, blue, purple, green, or otherwise, would mean the destruction of my soul. |
| Date | 17:20:35, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We are not apathetic to your concerns. We have provided your church members with continued security and publicly assisted you in providing care for the needy. We have no intention of undermining the Church of Scientology in any way. |
| Date | 17:21:05, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We are not apathetic to your concerns. We have provided your church members with continued security and publicly assisted you in providing care for the needy. We have no intention of undermining the Church of Scientology in any way. |
| Date | 17:22:03, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We are not apathetic to your concerns. We have provided your church members with continued security and publicly assisted you in providing care for the needy. We have no intention of undermining the Church of Scientology in any way. |
| Date | 17:31:26, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | New Theta | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We were not suggesting you are apathetic, only the people. We will let the people decide. We have lost some support in this region and our forecasts project further losses. If this indeed persists over the next election then the Church of Scientology of Terra will relocate to a more suitable region. |
| Date | 17:37:03, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We have proof of the polciies being carried out by the Tontons. If the DCP leadership choose to believe otherwise that acts as a very good indication that they are incapable of running Elbien, and as we suspect Elbien is descending into anarchy and lawlessness, as the Tontons choose to remove their rivals. Indeed it appears the DCP lack any basic control of the Tontons, who it appears are using the current situation as an opportunity to remove their rivals in the drug dealing business, securing the trade exclusively for themselves. |
| Date | 17:38:17, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | ooc: surely the Afro-Dranish are recent immigrants to Dranland, one would assume they weren't the natives, not this far north. |
| Date | 20:29:35, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | National Progressive Party | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We believe it is time for the Tonton military to start pulling out. The police, in collaberation with the military, has been strengthened to destroy the toughest of gangs. Our new anti-gang task forces, with arms similiar to that of the military, can overcome any obstacle and take down gangs with appropriate force for dealing with them. We will be able to keep the streets safe, and be ever vigilent for criminal activity which shall be crushed. The police force is now a strong instution, thanks to the work of everyone in the Internal Affairs department. |
| Date | 22:34:58, March 05, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | The Tonton are the largest criminal syndicate in the northern hemisphere, what are you doing about them? |
| Date | 00:57:28, March 06, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We do not blame specific people or ministries for the situation in Elbian, merely the incompetence of a new nation. |
| Date | 13:41:23, March 06, 2006 CET |
From | Plaid Draddwyr | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | As the SDP points out, incompetence brought about by the government, whom the Tontons overlords heads. |
| Date | 23:40:40, March 06, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We have no intention of withdrawing from Elbian any time soon. Any attempts to force us from the province will be dealt with accordingly. |
| Date | 22:57:18, March 07, 2006 CET |
From | Bloc Socialiste | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | We will revisit the issue in 2200. Until then, we will remain. Although we do not desire a war, we will protect the public as necessary. If we do break into conflict, we pledge to refrain from using our nuclear arsenal against Dranlandian targets. |
| Date | 21:34:47, March 08, 2006 CET |
From | National Progressive Party | To | Debating the Elbian Occupation RP | | Message | Your nuclear arsenal? I believe it is illegal for a private entity to hold nuclear weapons. This does not bode will with the Ministry of Defense nor the Ministry of the Interior. You might want to consider the suicidal action of bringing the full wrath of Dranland upon you. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 115 |
| no | Total Seats: 425 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 210 |
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| Random quote: "It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion." - Joseph Goebbels |