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Bill: Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407
Details
Submitted by[?]: Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 4408
Description[?]:
The changes made by the Business and Development Party make our nation seem like a joke.
OOC: Our current national motto is derived from Norsefire, the Nordic supremacist and neo-fascist political party in V for Vendetta and we do not wish to associate our nation with such extremists |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:27:17, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | We urge the KW not to throw out baby with the bath water when it comes to national mottos. Nothing in it suggests an explicit association with extreme political groups regardless who proposed it or where it was used. In fact we feel it exemplifies exactly how Beluzia should be. |
| Date | 16:26:51, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | If they are not correctly abiding the socialist agenda, then they should be removed. We personally think that socialism has been misinterpreted as something that always ends in dictatorship. But what people don't know is that Marx did not intend for one single person to have all the power. Dictatorship of the proletariat meant where the proletariat have control of political power, but not a system which did not give others a fair share. I could go on and on about how communism has been misinterpreted by many |
| Date | 16:40:12, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: All that does is give what you believe in a pass for 150 million slaughted while giving "fascism" no room to move at all. So why wasn't fascism "misinterpreted" so easily? They are all left wing totalitarian ideologies which become dictatorships with no room for individual creativity or entrepreneurship. We just think KW should be a little more circumspect when it comes to outrage over what is perceived to be politically wrong. There is plenty of history of evil for blame to be apportioned. |
| Date | 16:49:11, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: If you actually looked at who Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto for, he did not write it for Russians or the Chinese. He did not anticipate or predict that those two countries, both which were underdeveloped for a communist society, which was intended for advanced industrialised capitalised nations. In a communist society artists and storytellers would be able to fully pursue their craft. Art is always implicit in the sense that Marx wanted to see a society unfold in which the full creative powers of human beings could unfold freely. And this free realisation of human creative capacities lies in the very nature of art, especially once artists were confronted with photography and film, and sought to go beyond all forms of mimicry and to develop an "alternative reality" in art. And here, too, the artist is faced with the prevailing reality: he/she has to sell works to survive - or, at the other end of the scale - to make lots of money. However, it's Authoritarian/Totalitarian governments that stifle culture. And well, it's hard to have a fully democratic society when foreign powers invade your country for more than a decade in an effort to destroy your socialist government.
I could go on debating with you, but then you will always rebut my arguments and I've read way more things about Communism than you ever have, but I don't want to go into an argument with you about this |
| Date | 17:07:41, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | Liberty think it might have been more prudent to have a general discussion on the motto before putting it through. We are not sure the alternative proposed would necessarily have consensus. Although we support the other two articles we will vote no. |
| Date | 20:52:13, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Beluzian Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | This is a videogame, we should not talk about IRL politics, but i must side with the Liberty Party, capitalism bought the world renovation, prosperity and development with efficient and fair governments and great statesmen like Mobutu Sese Seko , Boris Yeltsin, Salinas de Gortari, Somoza Debayle , Ferdinard Marcos, Chiang Kai-shek, and Francois Duvalier, whose contributions to the betterment of humanity are incomparable to any other, the countries they governed are now the absolute fairest and more developed in the world, so much that people are fleeing from socialist third world shitholes in mass and going to live in them. |
| Date | 21:10:19, June 12, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | You cannot say that these countries are the fairest and most developed, because in fact, they are not. Haiti has high unemployment, poverty. Congo is a mess, Philippines is a mess. Russia is corrupt and doesn't care about its citizens. I'm starting to question whether you are sane enough to even play this. And socialist nations are not 'shitholes' and not third world. Is Canada a shithole? Is Norway a shithole? Is Finland a shithole? Is Denmark a shithole? Is Portugal a shithole? Is India, which has this in its constitutional preamble ' "We, the people of India, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic and to secure to all its citizens" a shit hole? Is Greece a shithole? Is Spain a shithole? |
| Date | 16:42:22, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: I wouldn't be so quick to call Canada, Norway, Finland, Denmark "socialist" either. At best they have mixed economies heavily reliant on US Defense spending to allow them to finance their welfare progs. Greece is a basket case, there are more millionaires in India than most other countries in the world. There is also grinding s-hole poverty. Portugal has major problems along with the other PIIGS nations (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain). Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea are better examples of how Socialism has failed humanity. Those people are desperate to get to Capitalist countries. Also the mass migration to capitalist Europe from Africa. |
| Date | 18:49:15, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: So now you're saying Portugal is not a socialist nation. It has a socialist government. Again and again, I try to explain that socialism and communism are not what Venezuela and North Korea are upholding, because socialism is not intended to be dictatorial or to be where government puts everything into public ownership, and you refuse to listen, basing your arguments off of totalitarian governments that call themselves socialist when they are not implementing it correctly. Politics in real life has become a thing where opinions are not allowed to be heard and are instead shot down based on confirmation bias. |
| Date | 18:55:17, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: If you actually took the time to read papers written by left wing and right wing academic sources, or news articles from things like The New Statesman, The Nation or blogs like LSE EUROPP, you can see that Venezuela is not socialist. Instead, most of its economy is controlled by the private sector. Even fake news Fox News proves it, which I agree with:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/18/socialism-private-sector-dominates-venezuelan-economy-despite-chavez-crusade.html
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/
Read this and tell me whether Venezuela is socialist, and if you say it is and continue to say it has destroyed humanity, I'll tell you how a socialist society will work and disprove any false made up lies you have. I want to maintain our friendship IG, but I believe I need to get some facts straight to at least set the world on a better path, one that is dominated by acceptance, tolerance, rationality over ignorance, irrationality, bias, partisanship |
| Date | 18:57:19, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: Portugal is not a socialist state. Lots of countries have socialist governments. So does Spain now but they aren't socialist. It has a mixed economy with a strong capitalistic outlook. Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea are exactly the kind of thing socialism ALWAYS turns into whenever it gets implemented fully. Communism is the final destination of socialism. It's time to admit Socialism has failed and to stop this pea and shell nonsense. |
| Date | 19:00:45, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | So now you're going to argue with me that Venezuela is very socialist when most of the private sector controls the economy? So do I have to repeat this again and again that socialism was not intended for underdeveloped agricultural countries? Have you read any of the background history of why Marx decided to write the Communist Manifesto and who it was intended for? |
| Date | 19:02:07, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | OOC: The nation has a leftist political confirmation bias. Fox news article was from 2010! This is 2018.Chavez still had three years to turn the country fully into a the Socialist basket case it is now. |
| Date | 19:09:16, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | I'm not going to waste my time educating rightists on why Venezuela is not socialist, because no matter how much we try, going back to talking about the roots of socialism, what socialism looks like in 21st century, you will always say that it's socialist even if it's not. You are the one having confirmation bias. Actually, Jeremy Corbyn is a democratic socialist, and a legit one. DO you think he will create a dictatorship? |
| Date | 19:55:13, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | It is impossible for him to create a dictatorship because Jeremy Corbyn is not one of those fake so called socialists in South America, North Korea or Africa. Also, his manifesto has never given any indication of wanting to overturn the democratic system or the capitalist system. He is Ok with capitalism, but believes that many things should be given control to the workers, not the elite |
| Date | 20:09:10, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Alliance | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | LP, Portugal is indeed a socialist state, currently governed by a coalition between Socialist Party, Communist Party and Left Bloc, and it is not a dictatorship, Portugal has seen 7 different socialist governments and 3 socialist presidents in the last 40 years, and it has never been a dictatorship except for Salazar which was everything but socialist |
| Date | 20:19:45, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | It is also a democracy which means like Beluzia, government coalitions come and go. It doesn't make them or the country Socialist, especially when it depends heavily on the movement of capital and business. But it's an interesting distinction leftists make. Venezuela is not Socialist despite wrapping itself in Socialism but Portugal is despite depending on a capitalist economy to survive. |
| Date | 20:34:54, June 13, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | None of that refutes what I said. Portugal is a first world western democracy who relies heavily on capital movement. This is simply fact, whether you live there or not. This websites sounds like it is moving the goalposts on "what socialism is" to ensure it is put in the best possible light while hitching a ride on the successes of the said capitalistic economy. |
| Date | 00:27:06, June 14, 2018 CET |
From | Alliance | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | "The clue is in the name" - Hitler was not a socialist and yet he lead the National Socialist German Workers' Party so that's enough proof.
Moreover Portugal is a socialist country, we can't expect however that we have to change every thing about Portugal in one instant, yes it relies on capitalism, but it can have socialist policies, Portugal ensures labor rights as well as other basic needs, has environmental policies while is also focused on economic growth, that's been cracking it's local record with the current socialist government |
| Date | 11:34:05, June 14, 2018 CET |
From | Liberty Party | To | Debating the Restoring National Pride and Patriotism Act of 4407 | | Message | All that proves is that you have learned to ignore the obvious when it suits.
Portugal has socialistic policies and a mixed economy. Many western nations do. Big differences to declaring it a Socialist country. You've just swept away all the private investment, all the banking, all the free enterprise to turn the place into government run Cuba where the state is sovereign.
But even under those terms why is Portugal a Socialist country but Venezuela not? |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 354 |
| no | Total Seats: 198 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 198 |
| Random fact: The influence a bill has on elections decreases over time, until it eventually is no longer relevant. This can explain shifts in your party's position to the electorate and your visibility. |
| Random quote: "Politics is the system of depriving the proletariat of their power." - Karl Marx |