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Bill: OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery
Details
Submitted by[?]: New Liberal Party of Hutori
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 4444
Description[?]:
| Bringing this conversation up for a vote to save for posterity and to clear from the "Bills under Debate" section. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:09:04, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC/RP: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NOTICE --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Liberal National Party shall send the following representatives: Paul Myer MP for Roselands Leader of the Liberal National Party Andrew Jones MP for South Roselands (LNP) Foreign Affairs Spokesperson |
| Date | 06:22:37, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Good Morning All, I wanted to convene this meeting to discuss the actions Hutori should take against Aloria given their decision to institute slavery. We pre-emptively set sanctions with the hope that doing so would deter the Alorian government from passing their slavery proposal. Unfortunately that did not work. I'm looking for options here. No idea will be rejected on its face. Give me your best. Sanctions clearly didn't work from only Hutori, so we either have to go bigger or seek an option elsewhere. If the New Liberals controlled the Presidency or the Foreign ministry, we would write a global sanctions treaty. However we don't have that power. Should the President or the Foreign Minister need assistance writing a greater sanctions treaty, we stand at the ready to help. I have considered military action, but we're about to lose some of our military leadership to retirement and resignation after the Dovani War. I can't say more right now, but know that the military is about to undergo some changes. Considering that and the fact that the nation is weary of war, I'm not sure a military intervention will be palatable to the people. Despite this, I'd like to ask NOCTO to consider a naval blockade and no-fly zone against Aloria. While our Navy would be likely to take the lead in such a blockade - a potentially unpopular move - we'd at least be able to starve out the Alorian government. As permanent representative and former Secretary General of NOCTO, Russ Selwyn might just have the sway to make it happen. I'd like to save as many Dundorfians in Aloria from slavery as possible. Let me know what you're thinking. Again, no idea is too dumb to share. Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 06:24:11, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC/RP: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NOTICE --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The New Liberal Party shall send the following representatives: Jack Hill MP for Wrightstown Centre Chancellor of the Commonwealth Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 06:29:06, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Chancellor, Even if the public won't support a military intervention, we should still consider it. The troops are ready to go. At least consider a special forces intervention. I didn't enlist to fight against the Dovani Union for us not to fight against slavers and for freedom. Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 06:32:54, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Good morning, Perhaps military action could take form of strategic bombing. We could potentially cripple the Alorian economy further by bombing strategic military outposts alongside their harbours. This could be combined with a naval blockade. Andrew Jones MP for South Roselands (LNP) Foreign Affairs Spokesperson |
| Date | 06:35:09, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Andrew, While I agree we could take the path of strategic bombing and naval blockade, I personally believe the best method would be regime change. Costly, yes. However this regime will not be stopped by crippling their economy, we must directly intervene and remove the Alorian goverment Paul Myer MP for Roselands Leader of the Liberal National Party |
| Date | 06:48:19, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Andrew, I like your thinking. The strategic bombing option is one that should be on the table. Paul, I'm just not sure that we can garner public support or support from our NOCTO allies for regime change. Honestly folks, I also want us to be thinking about options to get as many ethnic Dundorfian Alorians out of country as we can - especially before we take any military option. Any ideas? Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 06:57:21, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Chancellor, Firstly thank you for being open to strategic bombing. The Dundorfian Alorians make up too large of a group in Aloria to allow entry for all as refugees, around 20-35% of Alorias total population according to the last Census. The current Resettlement of Endangered Foreigners Under Government Enforcement (REFUGE) Act of 4426 stipulates a cap of 100,000. We could temporarily allow for a raise of this cap to 175,000. Another measure which I personally believe could be a great solution until Aloria has removed such a policy would be to issue Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) to Dundorfian Alorians who may reside in Hutori for up to 5 years or whenever the situation in Aloria is deemed safe for their return, whichever comes first. If the situation does not improve within those 5 years, they may apply to have their visa renewed and the situation assessed accordingly. Andrew Jones MP for South Roselands (LNP) Foreign Affairs Spokesperson |
| Date | 07:00:51, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | I have an idea. It is pretty shady, but hear me out. The government can't have military personnel on the ground without declaring war, right? Even if they are just trying to evacuate Alorian refugees? Here's my thought: Step 1) Institute the blockade on Aloria, prevent anyone from coming in or out of the country. Any Alorian ship will be turned back to Alorian ports. Step 2) That said, the government agrees to take in any Alorian refugees that can get to Hutori. Well how can an Alorian get to Hutori if they can't get past our blockade, you ask? Step 3) The government allows the creation of a clandestine paramilitary force to evacuate Dundorfian refugees. Officially, the government would not support the blockade runners; unofficially the blockade runners would coordinate with the Navy to ensure that naval patrols would not cross paths with the blockade runners. Basically, we get a series of ships and well-trained troops to get as many Dundorfians out as possible, as quietly as possible. The blockade will keep the Alorian navy at bay allowing the blockade runners to outrun the Alorians, but conveniently be nowhere to be found when the runners go in and out of Alorian waters. I volunteer to captain the first ship - but it'll only work if the government turns a blind eye AND institutes the blockade and a "any refugee that gets here gets asylum" policy. Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 07:02:42, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | I like the blockade runner idea. Rather than giving asylum, let's consider Andrew's suggestions of either raising the cap or issuing temporary protection visas. Thoughts on Jim's blockade runner idea? Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 07:03:46, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Andrew, I like that idea. I guess the other question is how many TPVs do we issue, and what can we realistically afford. We must also factor in the infrastructure we have for the housing of the Dundorfian Alorians and where they would be located etc. There is also the reality that they may never be able to return in their lifetime depending on circumstances in Aloria. Paul Myer MP for Roselands Leader of the Liberal National Party |
| Date | 07:06:32, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jim, sorry but we cannot afford the diplomatic nightmare if Aloria were ever to find out that we sponsored this action. It is simply too risky and could be seen as a declaration of war. Andrew Jones MP for South Roselands (LNP) Foreign Affairs Spokesperson |
| Date | 07:08:37, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Mr. Jones, I respectfully disagree. We're talking about strategic bombing. How is the blockade runner plan going to hurt relations any more than strategic bombing? Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 07:12:21, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Mr O'Neill. Strategic bombing while is still a strong action, it has often been used in the past to weaken regimes without the need of an official declaration of war. By physically entering their borders (whether be water or land) and having people on the ground in the eyes of the international community will be seen as an invasion. Andrew Jones MP for South Roselands (LNP) Foreign Affairs Spokesperson |
| Date | 07:15:12, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | People are going to die either way, Mr. Jones. At least my way gets some people out of the country. Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 07:16:24, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Gentlemen, that's enough! I'll take both of your suggestions under advisement. For now, give it a rest on the blockade runner issue. I'm interest as to what the Consumers Party and USPH think, same with the Democratic and Royalist parties. Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 07:16:29, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jim, How about we utilise our embassy in Aloria. Allow Dundorfian Alorians to come to the embassy, which will then be ferried off to the airport (in our vehicles) and flown out of the nation in our aircraft. We can subtly increase the staff numbers at our embassy with military personnel under titles such as "guard" and "accountant" who will allow us to process a greater number of individuals, and provide security for our embassy. Paul Myer MP for Roselands Leader of the Liberal National Party |
| Date | 07:17:32, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Paul, That's a great idea. Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 07:18:10, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Paul, Jim, I concur. However, what happens if Aloria cuts off diplomatic ties and expels our diplomats? Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 07:24:04, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jack We'd have to use this idea in conjunction with others I imagine. However I would think we would have leeway time to close the embassy which could potentially give us the opportunity to get significant number of Dundorfian Alorians out. The other reality is that we can't take everyone in either, how many are we planning to accept? Who else is going to accept in these refugees? Paul Myer MP for Roselands Leader of the Liberal National Party |
| Date | 13:12:27, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | The consumers party of Hituri calls the minister of finance as their representitive. |
| Date | 13:28:13, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Paul, jack, jim, As the minister of foreign affairs I suggest using Tpvs to help get dandorfians out of aloria. If It would help Hutori could increase our foreign aid budget and use it to fund shelters in neighboring countries after we get as many dandorfians out of aloria as possible we and the rest of the international community could start strategic bombing or a blockade. We could also at the same time try to encourage as many nations as possible to impose sanctions against aloria. I see how this could be viewed as an invasion but this could be justified by hos the dandorfians are being treated. Li Lison Minister of foreign affairs Head of the consumerist caucus |
| Date | 13:56:54, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jack, To answer you question It will be my first plan to give infinite TPVs to all citizens of aloria especially dandorfians. Unless another party objects I will begin the program with the help and assistance of the minister of the minister of environment and tourism now. Li Lison Minister of foreign affairs |
| Date | 14:00:45, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Chanceller, I would now like to hear what the minister of defence has to say. OOC: I'm getting on a plane in the next few minutes so I won't be available until April-May. Sry |
| Date | 15:59:10, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Hutori Party | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | The Royalist Party will be represented by: Dylan Jourdain Shadow Minister of Finance Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition Xander Woodbury Shadow Minister of Defense |
| Date | 16:02:22, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Hutori Party | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC: Actually we are sending Amanda King (Shadow Minister of Foreign Affairs) instead of Xander Woodbury |
| Date | 16:06:14, August 12, 2018 CET | From | Hutori Party | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Hello everyone, I think some great ideas have been shared here. Personally, I would be supportive of a combination of the blockade runner plan, and strategic bombing. I believe we should set up the blockade, get as many people out as possible, and then once we cannot handle anymore refugees, we start the strategic bombing to crumble the Alorian economy. Dylan Jourdain Shadow Minister of Finance |
| Date | 23:18:46, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Mr. Jourdain, I agree with your assessment. If we go with the blockade runners, how do we go about getting the ships? I'm sure that there are enough able-bodied sailors to man the ships, we'll just need to find a way to procure them. I volunteer to take leadership of the blockade runners, and can start as soon as possible. Jim O'Neill Military Attaché to the Chancellor |
| Date | 23:29:28, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jim, If we were to take this course of action, we'd probably have to stage a capture of some mothballed ships or hide an appropriation then transfer it to you for purchase of four-to-five ships. Is the latter doable? Someone with finance experience please let me know. Jack Hill Chancellor |
| Date | 23:30:06, August 12, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC: At what point to contact whoever is the mod over at Aloria and let them know we're going to blockade, institute a no-fly zone, and do strategic bombings? |
| Date | 00:12:50, August 13, 2018 CET | From | Hutori Party | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Jack, I believe the latter should be possible, in my years as finance minister, I learned the ins and outs of government spending and how much the public knows about and how much they don't. We can easily add the money to our say, Infrastructure & Transport budget, and classify what the money is being used for. Dylan Jourdain MP for Fairview Prosperity |
| Date | 02:23:04, August 13, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Dylan, I would add the blockade money to defence and the foreign aid money to foreign affairs. These are already classified and are similar to what the money is being used for. Does the minister of finance agree? Li Lison Minister of foreign affairs Head of the consumerist caucus MP for Dalry Lagard |
| Date | 02:31:00, August 13, 2018 CET | From | Consumers party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | Everyone, I will move to a vote a treaty involving an automatic sanction on all future slavery, and another that will specifically target alori with sanctions similar to that in the new liberal party's bill. Li Lison Head of the Consumerist caucus Minister of foreign affairs MP for Darly Lagard |
| Date | 17:02:55, August 13, 2018 CET | From |  Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | If I may Jack First off sorry for my late arrival, being briefed as it turns out takes significantly longer then expected. Well I am at Defence, I'm well versed enough in Foreign Affairs that I can offer a dual point of view here. On the Foreign department, we begin by expelling the Alorian Ambassador and recalling ours.. that does not mean that the we empty our Consulates in the other four provinces of Aloria, we focus on the capital and keep on coverage on the capital when it comes to that. Our sanctions were a good first step, now let's take the next step. We coordinate, through our consulates, the evacuation of Dundorfian refugees through our Consulates, and then under diplomatic coverage, escort them to the Dorvische, Dundorfian and Rutanian borders, which ever are closest. If the coast is closest, we follow Jim's suggestion. We can purchase any number of retired ships through the Ministry of Infrastructure, through the Coast Guard, and assign them to Blank Squadron, the effective name for special operations in the navy. We formally attach them to the Timothy Drumf Carrier Strike Group that scheduled to arrive at McCarthy Naval Base in Rutania and perform blockade runs like that, literally dumped the refugees on the Carriers for airlifts to Dorvik and Rutania. I am not willing to authorize strategic strikes against Aloria unilaterally without confirmation from our allies; this may damage Aloria but it will kill Alorian citizens and very possible members of the Dundorfian minority. While i agree we must protect the Dundorische minority, we will not more harm then good if we begin HB-22 Bomber runs on the Alorian cities. Thoughts? Amanda King Minister of Defence |
| Date | 14:53:49, August 14, 2018 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC: Aloria is repealing its Anti-Dundorfian Laws.. just an intervention is no longer necessary |
| Date | 22:59:51, August 23, 2018 CET | From | New Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the OOC/RP: Emergency Council of State to Discuss Alorian Slavery |
| Message | OOC: Bringing this bill up for a vote to save it for posterity. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 254 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 151 |
| Random fact: Real life-life nationalities, cultures or ethnicities should not be referenced in Particracy (eg. "German"). |
| Random quote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - Thomas Paine |