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Bill: Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment
Details
Submitted by[?]: We Say So! Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2074
Description[?]:
| In order to make it easier for Police to make quick identification of people in criminal procedures, and to guarentee that those entering voting booths are entitled to vote, all citizens will be provided by Government supplied Identity Cards. These cards may also be used to check proof of age on minors when attempting to purchase illicit materials. The cards will, however, be limited to containing only limited information so as not to make them to intrusive. Information contained will be: 1. Name. 2. Date of Birth. 3. Picture. 4. Should there be State National Insurance introduced, this number will be included. 5. A security hologram that is included to make forgery as difficult as possible. They will also be printed on reflective plastic and all letters embossed in order to increase the difficulty of creating acceptable forgeries. Police will not be given stop and search powers, so ID cards will only be need produced when, as stated, purchasing age restricted materials, and upon voting. Should the Police require your presence, Citizens have up to one week to report to their local Police Station with their card. For all other purchases, the cards will not be required. AMMENDMENT This ammendment would be an extension of the current legislation regarding Identity Cards (see above). Additional Card information included after former Bill. - Magnetic strip containing information about Library usage and borrowing. - Drivers Licence details (should holder have a valid licence or provisional licence). As per the request of the majority of our citizens the We Say So! Party would like to put up for consideration this ammendment to our current legislature. Current legisalture would still be enacted for the people, as per the Citizens Identification Proposal (above), with the only ammendment being that citizens would be required to hold their cards at all times. Should citizens not have their cards, and thusly not be able to produce proof of Identification upon request, then they would be required to pay an on the spot fine of, but not greater than, 1hrs minimum wage, before presenting themselves at a local law enforcement facility within one week of said request. All other rights within the original Citizens Identification Act would be protected. Should said requirement be ignored, then said citizen would be placed under arrest and brought before a Court of Law to determine the penalty to which they should face. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government-issued identity card policy.
Old value:: All citizens are issued with identity cards but are not required to carry them.
Current: All citizens are issued with identity cards but are not required to carry them.
Proposed: All citizens are issued with identity cards and are required to carry them at all times.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:08:45, June 29, 2005 CET | From |  United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Your reasoning for this please? I am not in favour of the idea and will definitely vote no. |
| Date | 18:09:22, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | I entered this before you edited, I apologise. |
| Date | 18:09:47, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | The reasoning is as stated above. |
| Date | 18:10:20, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Fair enough, sorry, just noticed your edit...sheesh, this is harder tha it looks... |
| Date | 18:10:48, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | I have trouble undersatnding this. Does it mean that people have to carry ID cards but if they are stopped without one then they suffer no punishment and have a week to get it like before? IF so I feel it is a pointless change. |
| Date | 18:13:44, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Thats the reasoning for me putting this up. I wish to debate the issue. Our citizens have requested that people be forced to carry their ID's with them. Currently the law is they present it after 1 week, but I'm currently trying to decide what should be the..."punishment" (don't really like that word, but can't think of a better one). If the UB can think of what should happen? Perhaps an on the spot fine, then show ID at Police Station within 1 week? |
| Date | 18:14:22, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | We will support it anyway as the general public wants this change (http://aiglesrv.no-ip.info:8080/particracy/main/viewnews.php?newsid=2557) |
| Date | 18:24:59, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | If, as stated before, the ID card is simply for identification purposes (such as getting social security): what is the point of carrying it around all the time? The USM fears that this is closer to encroaching civil liberties and will vote no. |
| Date | 18:42:09, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | House arrest for not carrying a card? This is very bad news indeed. If this is passed, the USM will support any use of civil disobedience on this law. |
| Date | 19:07:08, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | No, fine for not carrying a card. House arrest for not showing up to a Police station when requested. |
| Date | 19:08:05, June 29, 2005 CET | From | Right Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | This would be a terrible offense to freedom in order to gain more popularity/votes.Reminds us vaguely of nazi-era regime. We strongly resent and will vote no. |
| Date | 19:10:20, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | @USM - "House arrest for not carrying a card?" - I see no mention of house arrest. "If, as stated before, the ID card is simply for identification purposes (such as getting social security): what is the point of carrying it around all the time?" - If a person is arrested the ID card offers proof of identity to the police which they would be unable to have anyway. "If this is passed, the USM will support any use of civil disobedience on this law." -Then you would be breaking the law and able to be fined and, if my suggestion below is accepted, you may be liable to heavier sentences. @WSS - Looks good enough to me, although the fine may be too small to matter to most Hobrazians. Also perhaps a person should go to court if they repeatedly do not have their card at the time of request. |
| Date | 19:19:58, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Yes, I misread it: it's much worse - it's just arrest! This is a scandelous attack on rights and freedoms. |
| Date | 19:29:32, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Another misread. It is only arrest if they do not have their ID card AND fails to report with it to a police station within a week. I agree it should be reworded so that all of the details are in one bill and split into sensible paragraphs. |
| Date | 20:34:51, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | "Yes, I misread it: it's much worse - it's just arrest! This is a scandelous attack on rights and freedoms." Actually, the exact wording is..."placed under arrest and brought before a Court of Law to determine the penalty to which they should face." They would be given a chance to defend themselves before a Court of Law and if found innocent would receive no penalty. @UB - I'm going to include the original Act within this, but it'll take a bit of jiggling in order to make the wording match. |
| Date | 21:24:36, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | The whole point is they SHOULDN'T need to defend themselves in a court of law! It's absolutely proposterous that you can be charged for not carrying a piece of card with you. I hope we're not going down the road of 'Big Brother' monitoring like this. I reiterate: this Bill is bad news and parties supporting it are attacking rights of our citizens. |
| Date | 21:26:14, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | These magnetic strips and extra information reads like the government are trying to keep tabs on the actions of all citizens. |
| Date | 21:30:15, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | If you call our actions "the road of 'Big Brother' monitoring" then you are claiming that 43% of the Hobrazian public want such monitoring. Also how can you track someone if they are just carrying a card on them. You would need to constantly read the card and record its location to track them and the bill makes it clear that this will not be done. Maybe there should be an independant watchdog to assess what uses the ID cards can and cannot be put to to try and ease your fears. For the second time - arresting is ONLY if the person forgets their card AND does not present it at a police station. |
| Date | 21:31:44, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Please...stop reading extra into the laws that are being propsosed. The magnetic strip is a reader for the Library services. It contains information on how many books you're borrowing, nothing scary. It doesn't have an inbuilt tracker. The card doesn't contain highly sensitive information and you are merely adding spurious and unfounded arguments. The Court action is, I again reiterate, not over the fact they didn't have the card, please read the Bill. The Court action is not appearing at the Police station upon request, something that would occur in many Countries. |
| Date | 22:08:38, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Yes, but again think about why they have to go to the police station: for not carrying a piece of card. This card gives the ability to check up on anyone at any time (since it has to be on their person): this should not be allowed. |
| Date | 22:13:58, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | Another missed bit - "Police will not be given stop and search powers" The police cannot come and ask for your card unless it is part of another action, e.g. being arrested. |
| Date | 22:21:12, June 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | We would highlight the section of the above law that states clearly "The Police do not have stop and search powers". |
| Date | 22:42:28, June 29, 2005 CET | From | United Socialist Movement | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | How long until they do? We are shocked at this proposal and will not change our stance on identification. |
| Date | 23:17:46, June 29, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Liberal Party | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | We must admit that this is perhaps once of the most testing issues of our time, and there are clearly many pros and cons to the proposal. What we do not understand is if police do not have stop and search powers, as has been made very clear, how will anyone know if a citizen is carrying their ID card or not? The current legislation ensures that everyone has access to a form of identification (which should, if requested, be easily presentable at a police station within a week), without infringing on people's rights by forcing them to carry said ID cards at all times. For the time being, we must vote against this bill. |
| Date | 14:23:03, June 30, 2005 CET | From |  Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | I am a little uncomfortable with this. I can't support it. |
| Date | 11:05:59, July 02, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the Citizens Identification Proposal Ammendment |
| Message | "What we do not understand is if police do not have stop and search powers, as has been made very clear, how will anyone know if a citizen is carrying their ID card or not?" - They don't but if the police need to see an ID card for some reason and the person cannot present it then they have to follow the procedure in the bill. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 118 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 25 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 196 |
| Random fact: Moderation will not approve a Cultural Protocol request within the first 48 hours of it being requested. This is in order to give other players a chance to query the proposed changes, if they wish to do so. Moderation may be approached for advice on a proposed change, but any advice proffered should always be understood under the provisio that no final decision will be made until at least 48 hours after the request has been formally submitted for approval. |
| Random quote: "I think it's about time we voted for senators with breasts. After all, we've been voting for boobs long enough." - Clarie Sargent |