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Bill: Torture Regulation Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Vuloch Ca Korzia
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2040
Description[?]:
| A Bill that aims to curtail human rights abuse and extra judicial justice. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The use of torture for obtaining information.
Old value:: Suspects can only be tortured under grave emergencies where the information is vital.
Current: It is at the discretion of the police officer to torture suspects for information.
Proposed: Torture is never allowed.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | no, in some cases where it is of state emergency, i think torture should be allowed. (like 11 september, what if that could be prevented through the torture of 1 person?) |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Vuloch Ca Korzia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | How on earth could torture have prevented 9/11? It rarely yealds accurate information and is more often the tool of the oppressor against the people, the very antithesis of real socialism. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | it's an example, it was a what if 11 september could be prevented through torture.
I's not frequent torture but torture against people who are planing something against the state/ know someone who plans something against the state and it's people. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | U can't breach civil rights to defend civil rights. It doesn't make sense. And S/11 should not be brought into this game. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Vuloch Ca Korzia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | " We're eliminating a civil right" Well I can see your angle. Civil rights are freedom, and people have given their lives for that same freedom. How dare we squander that gift that they have passed down to us? I also agree that 9/11 should not be bourght into this game, it's far too emotive. Who is not to say that, sometime in the future, a fascist government will take a small minority government in Darnussia, and then excersise the torture that is allowed under our constitution? It may be you who comes under the knife. Please stop and think, when has torture ever saved lives? It has broken them, left wretched creatures who are barely human, and so has destroyed lives but saved them? This is a hypocrisy that reeks to high heaven. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | about the fassist government thing: this will be prevented through the law currently in effect. And if fassists would rise to power (possibly beceause of this bill) they will change the laws anyway. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Liberated Party | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | We support this bill. Not only is torture inhuman (and if we use it then we are no better than the people we would use it against), but any information gleaned from it would be, at best, of highly questionable validity. A man would admit to being his own father under torture - it doesn't make it true. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Vuloch Ca Korzia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | We thank the L.P and the C.E.D for their wise words upon this matter. The claims propogated by the opponents of this bill ammount to little more than irrational hysteria, the simple truth of the matter is that under torture a subject will admit to crimes or information that they are not guilty of, and armed with this false information any actions taken by the government would actually be putting the lives of our people at risk. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | why would you ask information to someone about something of national importance when not being sure he/she is the one knowing it. And it's NOT used for trials or something, of gaining information that way. as you all seem to think. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | for gaining information on the level of national importance. So lets say a terrorist is caught and the police knows he knows something about a planned huge terrorist attack, but he doesn't want to tell... |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | [quote]IT'S NOT ADMITING! IT'S GIVING INFORMATION! WHEN BEING TORTURED THE POLICE ALREADY KNOWS THEY ARE GUILTY... *sigh*...[/quote]
But are they? We already know that many 'terrorists' picked up by the US aren't terrorists. And even when you think that they definitely are guilty, it's not necessarily true. For example, somewhere in the US, out of 5 people about to suffer the death penalty, college students decided to investigate and eventually found enough to prove 3 of them not guilty, despite there being so-called 'conclusive evidence'. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | [quote]for gaining information on the level of national importance. So lets say a terrorist is caught and the police knows he knows something about a planned huge terrorist attack, but he doesn't want to tell...[/quote] === But do they KNOW? I refer you to my post above. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Torture Regulation Bill | | Message | 1. yes, but the U.S. is guilty until proven otherwise. Ciilized nations have not guilty until proven otherwise. And they use a jury and not someone who studied rights. 2. Yes we could make a bill to make sure of this |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 171 |
| no | Total Seats: 385 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 49 |
| Random fact: It is the collective responsibility of the players in a nation to ensure all currently binding RP laws are clearly outlined in an OOC reference bill in the "Bills under debate" section of the nation page. Confusion should not be created by displaying only some of the current RP laws or displaying RP laws which are no longer current. |
| Random quote: "Communism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen." - Leon Trotsky |