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Bill: Heriditary Head of State Act 2102
Details
Submitted by[?]: Party of Evil
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 2103
Description[?]:
| Since the title of Head of State is purely symbolic with all real authority residing with the Consul, we propose to separate it from the Head of State and make it into a hereditary title. The actual title can be decided later. This will give the government a semblance of continuity without changing the actual democratic process; it will also give the people a clear symbol of the state. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Structure of the executive branch.
Old value:: The Head of State is also Head of Government.
Current: The Head of State is also Head of Government.
Proposed: The Head of State is hereditary and symbolic; the Head of Government chairs the cabinet.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 14:40:31, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Rational Future | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Nonetheless, an elected head of state is chosen by the people to represent the ceromonial and moral voice of the nation. If the people are unhappy with the way they are being represented in these matters, then they should still retain the electoral ability to remove them from office. |
| Date | 15:10:16, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | On the plus side, a hereditary head of state is often a great door opener in international contacts. In many countries they will be treated with more respect than an elected official. |
| Date | 16:19:10, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Free Market Party | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Absolutely not. This bill stands against everything the FMP is for. It is a step backwards into the past--a past without Democracy and rule of law. Never shall we accept such a thing, rather it is merely symbolic or not. |
| Date | 17:35:08, August 27, 2005 CET | From | NATIONAL UNION | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Since when is a Monarchy not democratic? Are the republics of Congo, North Korea, Vietnam, Mali, Sudan, Turkmenistan,... democratic? Are the Kingdoms of Belgium, Great Britain, Spain, Sweden, Norway,... undemocratic? The NU thinks FMP's argumentation is not very fair... |
| Date | 19:38:53, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Free Market Party | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | We never mentioned a Monarchy, specifically. Our argument addressed the symbolic value of a position based on heredity. A system founded on heredity cannot be democratic; therefore, its symbolic leaders must represent something other than democracy. Our leaders—all of them—should be elected under a democratic system. Keeping an unelected leader symbolizes an undemocratic process. The FMP will not adopt such a policy. Perhaps if we had always had a monarch we could understand keeping such a position for cultural reasons, but that is not the case. We would be changing a government position to fit a past that we never had. We should be proud of our democratic history, and we should not approve of a government office that symbolizes anything but our democratic values. Rule by inheritance was never part of our nation, and we should not adopt it now in any way whatsoever. [OOC - Constitutional monarchies can be, in real life, democratic. But they didn’t develop by imposing a monarchy AFTER they built a democracy. Instead, the monarchs are usually symbols from their past, and a democratic system was built around the monarchy until the monarchs lost all real power. These real life examples mean nothing to our game. The history of Terra is different from the history of Earth.] |
| Date | 19:47:52, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | While we agree that the FMP has a point there, we see this as a way to turn the position of Head of State, a position currently so symbolical as to be effectively invisible, into something more representative of the nation. The Consul takes care of the actual government and symbolizes the democratic influence of the people; this proposal aims to make the Head of State a symbol of the nation and of it's continuity. |
| Date | 20:33:30, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Unio enim si quis Motus Populi | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Ummm...you do realize that our Head of State is also Head of Government, so it's not symbolic. Absolutly not. |
| Date | 20:40:34, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Rational Future | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | If you look carefully at the legislation, he is proposing to separate the head of state and the head of government. The head of state would be hereditary and the head of government would be democratic. I still oppose this for reasons outlined earlier. |
| Date | 21:12:01, August 27, 2005 CET | From | Unio enim si quis Motus Populi | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Game mechanics do not allow for the head of government to be elected. If this were to happen, we would have a king, and the head of government would be picked the old fashion way: whoever got their Cabinet passed first and kept it in power, and this would most likely be the largest party. It was a long standing, unwriten rule that the Head of State winner would get the Head of Government position, as to not make the Head of State symbolic. We changed it to what we have now to make this official. The VIP is saying our Head of State postion, which RUNS THE GOVERNMENT AS THEY ARE ALSO HEAD OF GOVERNMENT, is purly symbolical, which it isn't. What he is trying to do is make it purly symbolical, which is hypocritical and asinine. All I was saying is I don't think he realizes this. "Since the title of Head of State is purely symbolic with all real authority residing with the Consul" No, in fact, I know he doesn't realize this, as he obviously doesn't know the laws of his own country. Basically, let me replace Head of State with it's official title, Consul. So what he said here is the Consul is purely symbolic, with all authority residing in the Consul. I think the VIP is just confused =( |
| Date | 00:08:08, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Rational Future | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | *Head is spinning* |
| Date | 03:30:15, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | The options here are: Structure of the Executive branch. The Head of State is also Head of Government. Alternatives: o The Head of State and Head of Government are two seperate officials. o The Head of State is hereditary and symbolic, the Head of Government chairs the cabinet The way I read this, the proposal includes separating the two positions. Right now, the position of Head of State is so empty of meaning it can be done by the Consul besides his/her regular activities. The new arrangement would separate the two, and give them clear and distinct identities. |
| Date | 06:05:17, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Unio enim si quis Motus Populi | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | So again, what you saying is that we take the Head of State, take away from that the part that says they are also head of government, and make the job even more meaningless then it was? Right now, the Consul is like the President of the United States. You wouldn't call that position as having empty meaning would you? We gave the Head of State the position of Head of Government for the soul purpose as to GIVE THE POSITION MEANING. What you are proposing is LEAVING THE POSTION ENTIRELY DEVOID OF MEANING. |
| Date | 14:25:01, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | On the contrary, we propose turn the position into a powerful symbol of the state of Kundrati, and of its continuity. Cabinets and consuls come and go, but the Head of State should provide a sense of continuity. |
| Date | 17:21:14, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Rational Future | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Continuity is the perogative the people. That is democracy. |
| Date | 22:12:47, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | And the Head of State would be the enduring symbol of this. |
| Date | 22:15:17, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Unio enim si quis Motus Populi | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | This is possibly the one and enduring benefit of Democracy. Democracy is self cleansing. If the head of state is bad, he may be voted out of office. To get a hereditary HoS out of power should he be bad, there needs to be an uprising or revolution. |
| Date | 03:23:44, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Except that in this case the HoS would not *have* power. His/her function would be purely symbolic and representative. At best, he/she could advise the Consul if asked, but nothing more. Seriously, we're not proposing installing an absolute monarch like Louis XIV in Kundrati! |
| Date | 04:12:58, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Unio enim si quis Motus Populi | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | no, but what you are proposing is that we replace a Head of State who is not merely symbolic, and actually has meaning and a democratic job with a Head of State that is nothing but symbolic. This is asinine and pointless. |
| Date | 11:42:25, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Free Market Party | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | We completely agree with the National Solidarity. |
| Date | 15:46:59, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | 'Et tu, Brute?' :) We can see this won't be passing this time, but we'll put it to the vote nonetheless, just to prove our commitment to democratic procedure. We also maintain the right to make this proposal again at a later date. |
| Date | 16:50:44, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Capitalist Freedom Party | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | IMO, this could actually prove to be interesting -- sort of like RL Monaco IIRC. For RP purposes at least, I think it has its benefits. But on the offhand... |
| Date | 16:51:26, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Capitalist Freedom Party | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Regardless, I can be convinced either way. Anyone feel like trying? |
| Date | 20:15:27, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Party of Evil | To | Debating the Heriditary Head of State Act 2102 |
| Message | Maybe next time? :) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 80 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 186 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: It is not allowed to call more than 5 elections in 5 game years in a nation. The default sanction for a player persisting in the early election tactic will be a seat reset. |
| Random quote: "I don’t have facts to back this up." - Herman Cain |