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Bill: The Agnostic Will of the People
Details
Submitted by[?]: Brmékai Krsyiji Prta
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2511
Description[?]:
| Establishing an all powerful organised religion is the will of the people. Deny it, or simply pretend that people do not care, but the polls are clear. This is a secular nation and as such the people wish to be oppressed by religious zealatory. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government determines which missionaries are permitted to visit on a person by person basis.
Current: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Proposed: Foreign missionaries are welcomed and encouraged by the government.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state appoints all heads and other ministers of all religions.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religions are required to obtain government approval before promoting themselves or advertising in any manner.
Current: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Proposed: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change
Taxation of religious institutions.
Old value:: Religions are treated as companies, and all profit is taxed, however, charitable donations are not taxed.
Current: No religions are taxed.
Proposed: No religions are taxed.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The state's policy concerning religious clothing.
Old value:: It is not permitted to wear religious clothing or religious symbols in public buildings.
Current: There are no laws regulating the wearing of religious clothing and the wearing of religious symbols.
Proposed: People are required to dress according to religious codes
Article 6
Proposal[?] to change The governments stance on religious schools.
Old value:: Religious schools are allowed, but are strictly regulated. Only recognised religions may set up religious schools.
Current: Any religion may set up a school, with no regulations.
Proposed: All schools are required to be religious in nature.
Article 7
Proposal[?] to change Remuneration of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The salaries and pensions of ministers of religions shall be regulated by the law, but shall be borne by the religious communities themselves.
Current: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Proposed: The remuneration of ministers of religion shall be left up to the local governments.
Article 8
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy with respect to prayer in schools.
Old value:: The government leaves this decision up to the schools themselves.
Current: The government leaves this decision up to the schools themselves.
Proposed: Teacher-led prayers in schools are encouraged.
Article 9
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning religions.
Old value:: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Current: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Proposed: There is no official state religion, but the government requires everyone to belong to a religion of some kind.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:54:56, January 03, 2008 CET | From |  Brmékai Krsyiji Prta | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | "This bill is intended purely to show the absurdity of the GVP proposal. Agnosticism and secularism express a wish for freedom of religion from the state, freedom of the state from religion, and freedom of the people to practice the religion they choose, not the banning and over regulation of religion. We apologise for wasting the houses time with this, but we felt it the best way to point out the logical fallacy in the anti-religious position" -David Yishalem |
| Date | 16:54:03, January 03, 2008 CET | From | Republican Socialist Party | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | then why go to the vote when you have a good chance of passing it??? this is the haLeumit taking advantage and imposing a FASCIST QUASI-Religious state upon yhe people even though many do not believe in religions never mind believe that religion and state should mix. we ask the question is this an attempt to seize control of the state??? if it is be warned the IRSA and the IRSB will not stand back and watch it happen!! |
| Date | 17:26:44, January 03, 2008 CET | From | Brmékai Krsyiji Prta | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | "Firstly, before you go making threats, you should remember that the IRSA and IRSB are much smaller than the HaLeumit Tikvah. Using them as a threat is rather like us threatening to attack the Barmenian Army; it would make the generals laugh as hard as our commanders do to tyour threats. Secondly, you should remember that it is only with our support, Mr McPeake, that you will retain the presidency. We do not take kindly to insults and accusations, and would hate to have to re-evalutate our support. We have already stated what the intention of this bill is to show the ridiculous nature of the anti-religious agenda. Agnosticism as much justifies this bill as it doex theres, yet you do not threaten them with violence. If this bill passes, it is due to apathy in politics, something which hopefully this bill will also highlight. We have no more commitment to the secular nature of the state than the anti-religious parties do, but if the secular parties are too apathetic to maintain it, it perhaps does not deserve to be maintained." -Mordechai Eitam |
| Date | 22:52:31, January 03, 2008 CET | From | Globale Verbesserung Partei | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | The absurdity of this bill simply shows the desperation of the Tikvah. They will stoop to the lowest level of propaganda in order to implement their plan of religious dominance and control. In terms of our agnosticism and secularism, the banning of organized religion is based on history, not theocratic principles. The collective history of the major organized religions is steeped in blood, theft, and oppression. We would strive to eliminate any organization with such a violent criminal history, whether it is the mafia, white-collar crime syndicates, street gangs, or organized religious groups. They are all one and the same in search of power, money, and dominance. Minor unorganized religions, which you may term as pagan or the like, typically are non-evangelical and pacifistic. As we are agnostics, we do not wish to suppress a person’s right to worship anything from a rock to the seven gods of Saturn. Where faith crosses the line is when it evangelizes and suppresses other religions and non-believers. All of the major religions partake in those activities. Again, we have no issue with allowing unorganized religion. However, we will not move one inch in that direction while the foreign Tikvah of Beiteynu occupy our lands. Return to your homeland, and we will relax our policies. The choice is yours, stay and the harshest religious policies shall continue, or leave and allow the people religious freedom. |
| Date | 00:11:06, January 04, 2008 CET | From | Brmékai Krsyiji Prta | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | "We'll make you a deal. All the Beiteynuese members of our organisation shall leave when all the Dundorfians outside the 0.5% who have lived here for centuries leave. Sound fair? It is good you fear us enough to bargain with us. Of course, right now we are powerful enough to keep our religious freedom and represent the hebrew people. And, of course, since your anti-religious policies have existed long before we came to stop you, we know your forced atheism has nothing to do with us. If you do not believe in religious freedom as a fundamental right, then you are not to be trusted at all. How much blood is the GVP steeped in? How many did you drive out of their homes, force them into state institutions or force march out the country? The main difference between organised religion and organised atheism is that orgainsed atheism ALWAYS leads to death and destruction. From the communists to the Archonists, from the Imperium to Barmenians radical century, all have seen death and destruction. Orgainsed atheism has never produced good results, because its purpose is division, whereas religion creates an inhuman quality; unity with people they otherwise have nothing in common with. To use Beiteynu as an example: it has given aid to people all over the World, from Dovani to Artania even to here, to people it has otherwise nothing in common with other than faith. Is such a thing perfect, because it ignores everyone else? Of course not, but it is better than the nothing destroying faith provides. The end of religioin is the end of a unity that no other institution provides. You are not destroying mans inhumanity or its capacity and love for war and exploitation; religion has never been the primary reason for any war, and it is only ever the tool of exploiters, not the cause of exploitation. You are attacking unity and liberty, you are promoting division and mind control. Every time you propose one of your ridiculous anti-religious bills, we shall propose a ridiculous theocracy bill. That we do promise." -David Yishalem |
| Date | 08:12:42, January 04, 2008 CET | From | Globale Verbesserung Partei | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | You are confusing rationality with fear. We place the people over our own power, unlike the Tikvah. We recognize there is a limit to our current standing and are offering a solution to the problem instead of being divisive such as your counteroffer. Requesting millions of people leave? Your genocidal tendencies know no bounds. We are simply asking one party to peacefully return home, while you are requesting a generation of men, women, and children whether 1 year old or 100 to leave. You also overestimate your power. You have been unable to prevent the GVP and our allies from bringing this nation back into an agnostic state. In ten minutes, your people will once again be unable to ply their aggressive religion. We will not, as you said, force march them over the border. Such atrocities are out of your playbook, not ours. Their decision to stay and abide by the law or leave is their own to make. The GVP has clean hands and a clear conscience. How about the Tikvah who month after month threaten to use deadly force to get their way? Thankfully, by the strength of the GVP and the other parties of Barmenistan have you been unable to carry out your plans of terror. There is no stronger unification than the human bond. Agnosticism uplifts and liberates ALL people, regardless of what an ancient book says. Organized religion, by definition, divides mankind and creates eternal inequality between the believer and non-believer. Agnosticism places all on the same equal level, favoring none. |
| Date | 15:12:31, January 04, 2008 CET | From | Brmékai Krsyiji Prta | To | Debating the The Agnostic Will of the People |
| Message | "The HaLeumit Tikvah is more than a party. When you call for it to leave, you are calling for an alliance of hundreds of thousands of people to leave. We may make satirical requests for the Dundorfians to leave, since it seems very ironic for a dundorfian party to call anyone foreign, but let us not forget it is your party that actually supported deporting millions of people for decades, and now does so again. We are glad to know you will not use force. That being the case, we shall simply ignore your order AND stay. We may have made threats but it is only the anti-religious parties who have ever used force, to deport people and lock them up on false charges. The actual use of force is much worse than the threat. Agnosticism can be whatever it likes, that is what we had in Barmenistan, however now you have implemented organised atheism, the greatest abuser of human rights the world has ever seen. Unity is not natural to man. Culture and ethnicity create unity, but by and large man is divided. What, exactly, was it that drove Luthori to rescue you the Christians from the persecutions of the Islamic Caliphate? Could it be their shared religious bond? What is it that inspires Beiteynu to send aid to people all across the World? Inequality, war and exploitation are natural creations of man; religion will of course be exploited to create more, but it is not always so. Organised atheism, however, has always been exploited to preserve power and create division. Now, we have offered you a compromise of a truly agnostic state, one you claim to want. I would suggest we work together to create it." -David Yishalem |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 106 | ||||||
| no |
Total Seats: 154 | ||||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 40 |
| Random fact: The players in a nation have a collective responsibility to ensure their "Bills under debate" section is kept in good order. Bills which are irrelevant or have become irrelevant should be deleted. Deletion can be requested for bills proposed by inactive parties on the Bill Clearout Requests thread: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4363 |
| Random quote: "How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it." - Marcus Aurelius |