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Bill: National Condemming of Sekowo
Details
Submitted by[?]: Am Echad, Pays Libre
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 2580
Description[?]:
| The office of Head of State calls for the condemning of Sekowo for it's murder of 10,000, with more than half of them civilians, using nuclear weapons. They have killed so many people and we can not let them do that. If this passes the Knesset will allow and endorse a Condemnation of Sekowo by the Jewish homeland |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 22:54:10, May 20, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | Sekowan Military Takes Farbanti Following last weeks chemical attack on Sekowan controlled Southern Farbanti which resulted in ten-thousand dead, more then half civilians, the Sekowan military has taken the opportunity of the mostly empty Northern Farbanti to completely take the rest of the city. The city, which is now being completely barricaded from the inside out has become the focal point of Sekowan military command and operations in the Hutorian conflict. Following the take over the city has been renamed New Kasmenai. The city will be the home of the Hutorian refugees from the illegal settlement in Southern Dovani who have chosen not to renounce there Hutorian citizenship in favor of Sekowan citizenship to stay in the region. ________________________ Hutori Telegraph |
| Date | 10:53:35, May 21, 2008 CET | From | Jewish Mothers' Union | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | I am appalled by this grossly irresponsible use of nuclear weapons. Melanie Koffenbaum (Minister of Foreign Affairs & Leader of the JMU) |
| Date | 19:55:02, May 21, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Gathering of Beiteynu | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | These evils have been seen by Our Lord and have been condemned. Let us look upon all who commit these grave acts and scoff at their wickedness. |
| Date | 17:41:35, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | Scoff and make your resolutions all you wish, but we shall fight to bring those responsible to justice. We only regret that one of those chiefly responsible is beyond our reach of justice, in death. |
| Date | 17:50:10, May 22, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "You cannot commit a crime then claim righteousness by looking for 'justice'. How does your 'justice' help those in Hutori whom you murdered and maimed?" -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 18:36:55, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "We cannot repair the damage to the Hutori people. The parties (using the term loosely) responsible will be punished accordingly. Kayabuki, responsible for ordering the attack, went directly against Sekowan national law, and, although we were unable to try her before her death, we shall pursue all those who fired the missiles, and they shall be dealt with accordingly. We cannot account for the dead of the Hutori, we can only mourn for their loss. However, unlike this official condemnation, we actually act to change things." --Wycliffe Kilkenny, Chairman of the AFFS. |
| Date | 01:12:45, May 23, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | The world court will also try her in absence as a war criminal. |
| Date | 02:13:47, May 23, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "The hypocricy of claiming change while offering no change to the ruined lifes of the people of Hutori is beyond us." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 16:28:49, May 23, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "We are trying Kayabuki, and since no 'world court' seems availible, we must do what we can within our nation. Metzger, while offering some fiery rhetoric, has not understood the situation. The people of Sekowo have withdrawn their armies from the war in Hutori, but without stability on the ground, (which we currently do not feel qualified to offer) there can be no true reconciliation. We are offering actual change, removing our forces, and providing aid to those in need, rather than selling it like the profit-mongers in Beiteynu. We do seek change, but only positive change, which takes time, effort, and much work." --Wycliffe Kilkenny |
| Date | 22:30:09, May 23, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "I understand the situation perfectly. Sekowo murdered thousands of civilians with nuclear weapons. Now it offers empty words and token aid and expects us to ignore its act of mass murder." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 18:11:49, May 24, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Ignore? No one, especially Sekowans, can ignore what happened. However, to claim, as Beiteynu has, that a resolution of official condemnation has any power over those responsible, is, frankly, a lie. The actions of our special courts are those which can bring justice, not the ravings of people across the sea, and, fortunately for them, far from the actions of war. If Metzger wishes to claim an understanding of the situation, I invite him to sit upon the bench, find the root of the problem, and weed it out. He only wants a token, paltry condemnation. We seek to ensure it never happens again." --Wycliffe Kilkenny |
| Date | 18:35:15, May 24, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "If you do not expect us to ignore the action, what did you expect our reaction to be? We never claimed it would have any official power, but we see no reason why that should mean we shouldn't express disgust over Sekowos actions. Frankly, to agree with us that the action was wrong yet disagree that we should condemn it must be a Sekowan logic that does not translate over here. Of course our condemnation was token; how exactly do you expect us to undo your wrongs? The missles have already been fired. We are in no position to change the abuses of power in Sekowo. I am confident I could find the 'root of the problem' better than those who will likely refuse to admit their is more of an underlying cause than one man getting too over-zealous in his defence of communism. But thats a Sekowan issue, not a Beiteynuese one, so ho do you expect Beiteynu to enact change?" -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 22:50:43, May 24, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "The problem lies not in the proposal, but in the grouping of the Sekowan people, many of which were opposed to war in the first place, with Ms. Kayabuki and her radicals. We have no issue with the resolution, but the self-righteous attitude of, and I quote, 'Let us look upon all who commit these grave acts and scoff at their wickedness.' Wickedness, while it exists, will not be eliminated through scoffing at it. Perhaps the people of Beiteynu could learn a lesson from that, if they could practice what they claim to preach." --Wycliffe Kilkenny OOC: I'm quite enjoying this. |
| Date | 23:26:26, May 24, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "You complain about us grouping, yet you associate the position of the entire 'people of Beiteynu' based on a statement by the cult of Ishmael. However, ours is not a grouping, it is a condemnation of actions commited by Sekowo. We can go into semantics of how much guilt falls where -we have no doubt your own court will be a whitewash that will not even consider whether the rest of the government carries any blame and will simply paint Ms. Kayabuki as solely responsible- but ultimately all that would be a pointless debate. Sekowo is responsible for firing the first nuclear weapons in a war that has now seen tens of millions die in nuclear exchanges. Debating on whether the guilt lies with the nation or the elite, promising it will not happen again, doleing out blame; none of that will bring back the dead." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 00:59:16, May 25, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Neither will a condemnation which, firstly, places blame inappropriately, (with incorrect facts, I might add) and secondly, mis-quotes a leader, leaving out crucial details in order to maintain a false sense of moral superiority." --Wycliffe Kilkenny |
| Date | 01:21:19, May 25, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "The condemnation doesn't quote anyone- the press release is a different thing. It does not place blame inappropriately, you just simply refuse to accept your portion of the blame. And 10,000 does not seem like an over-estimate, given that it fired the first nukes in a nuclear exchange that has destroyed half of Hutori. This is not about moral superiority, this is about condemning mass murder. As we have said, we are in no position to help, and now that Sekowan and Hutori weapons have turned the region into a radioactive wasteland, we can hardly send in aid workers to die. But, please, since Sekowo apparently has more time for standing up for its international reputation than helping the people it leaves dying in Hutori, what 'crucial details' are we missing that makes mass murder acceptable?" -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 03:59:55, May 25, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Firstly, while I'll never accept what happened, the nuclear weapons which were fired, were, until we can find further evidence, fired at military camps and stations, not at the civilian targets. Your information was clearly faulty, as the civilians were the result of a Unionist attack with chemical weapons on Farbanti. As you yourself put it, there is nothing we have in our power to do at the moment. I personally have organized my party into supplying aid in addition to the national aid we are sending to Hutori, much more than the 'tied' aid which Beiteynu may offer, if they happen to feel that much concern. It is up to them, to give, help, and assist, or to go against the principles of love and compassion which they have been taught in their synagogues and churches." --Wycliffe Kilkenny |
| Date | 12:33:36, May 25, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Forgive me if I don't believe Sekowos word on casaulties. The DSP has laready confidently claimed that zero civilians died, a claim so obviously dishonest it is a wonder they bothered to come up with a lie. There is, of course, the fact that you introduced nuclear weapons to a war that has now killed tens of millions by them. We cannot know for certain whether either side would have used the weapons anyway had you not fired them; but certainly we suppose you at least sped up the descent to their use. I don't feel the need to explain our aid system to you. Clearly you are clutching at straws if the best you can do is attack a system you know nothing about. I can tell you, however, that no aid system in Terra is as bad as firing the first nuclear weapons in a nuclear war." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 16:28:34, May 25, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Agreed. Nothing can, nor will compensate, as the dead cannot nor should be raised. However, as regards your aid system, I've looked at your system, and, unless your policy contradicts your law, you're selling aid, and that seems far from giving aid. It contradicts the very idea. That you would sell, rather than give, denotes a lack of charity, a lack of love for your fellow people, and, frankly, the fact that you are attacking an entire nation for the actions of five individuals perhaps shows that you know nothing about the system you are attacking, either. Again, you've placed a people under the guillotine for the actions of an individual. No vote was raised, only an announcement, which frankly, outraged the Sekowan people. The party, responsible for placing such a monster in power, is being placed under examination, and may be barred from cabinet positions for quite some time. The Constitution cannot allow greater punishment, but perhaps if Mr. Metzger is the arbiter of justice and right, he could find a better solution. Until that point, I suggest that he may scoff, and claim his moral superiority, but while he sits there, dreaming of mansions on high, we shall endeavor to seek whatever small recompense we can offer." --Wycliffe Kilkenny |
| Date | 00:56:40, May 26, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "As I've said, you don't understand our aid system, and this isn't the place to be explaining it. If you want to confuse the condemning of a nation with the condemning of a people, thats your business; I'm not going to waste my time arguing against it. We believe that the individual is more than the state- perhaps in Sekowo, which seems to spend more of its time subjegating and blowing up people than is average in our part of the World, the concepts of the individual and the nation are very different. Again, if you wish to pretend this is a World where our condemnation is about moral superiority and 'scoffing', fine. I could point out again that it was about exactly what it says- our disgust at the use of nuclear weapons and mass murder of civilians- but I doubt you would listen. Frankly, I didn't surepticiously double my departments budget so I could spend half my time explaining why we would condemn mass murder." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 06:51:07, May 26, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the National Condemming of Sekowo |
| Message | "Neither would I, sir. I find friends, contacts, and I use my own money, not the party's, for these events. If we are to make something of ourselves, we should do it as a person. However, as concerning the arguments placing the nation of Sekowo as a nation, you still confuse an act of an individual for the act of a nation, again canceling your own argument. Also, again, if you look at your own arguments and press releases, you confused the chemical attack on Farbanti with the Sekowan strike. Not legalizing the strike in any sense, but it seems rather convenient that one would condemn only one side for nuclear warfare, while remaining silent on the use of biological and chemical weapons. Understandable, of course, for a nation which reserves such odious weapons of destruction for itself, and gives carte blanche to their use. It hasn't happened yet, thank heavens, but to assume that your own ranks are free from corruption is a dangerous point to make, especially with leaders in power which are "openly anti-Muslim" Allowing such people to govern is, to say the least, disconcerting for many of my brethren and sisters who are Muslim. But we can't expect anyone to be just and moral all the time, can we? At least, if I understand your position correctly. Feel free to correct me, but it must be through other contact. I must return to help correlate aid for those in Hutori." |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 339 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 61 |
| Random fact: The influence a bill has on elections decreases over time, until it eventually is no longer relevant. This can explain shifts in your party's position to the electorate and your visibility. |
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