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Bill: Military Act 2832
Details
Submitted by[?]: United Democrats
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2833
Description[?]:
| We at the DPR are proposing these bills once again in the light that the political landscape appears to have changed somewhat. See http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=264057 and http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=265385 for previous debates on these matters. Article 1 We re-iterate that it is a horrid thought that any chemical or biological weapons would be used on civilian areas, sometimes in warfare mistakes do happen and collateral damage does occur. But, we must set our stance on this, we must condemn the use of any type of weapon on a civilian population. Article 2 While we understand the many arguments regarding this matter, and see their merits, we cannot allow such prejudice and bigotry to manifest itself in an institution that is fighting for the same freedom in which we are limiting. We accept that some people may find sharing a battlefield with a homosexual wrong, but no tests have been carried out that prove that a homosexual is inadequate to fight alongside heterosexual soldiers. The DPR propose a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy to ensure morale is kept at a high for our brave soldiers of Rutania. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the use of chemical and biological weaponry in warfare.
Old value:: The nation reserves the right to use chemical or biological weapons in warfare for any reason.
Current: The nation shall never use chemical or biological weaponry in warfare.
Proposed: The nation can only use chemical or biological weapons on non-civilan areas.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Military stance on homosexuality.
Old value:: Homosexuality is not tolerated in the military. The military actively seeks to remove homosexuals from it.
Current: Homosexuality is allowed in the military.
Proposed: Open homosexuality is not tolerated in the military. The military has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 09:02:06, October 15, 2009 CET | From |  Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | The REP sincerely supports Article 2 of this legislation, however about Article 1 we have not made a decision yet. We would like to hear the opinions of other parties as well. |
| Date | 11:05:06, October 15, 2009 CET | From | People's Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | The PPR will support both the articles in this bill. Any proposed change to Article 1 and the current value, which verges on megalomania, is good. We share the reservations of the Republican Elitist Party regarding Article 1, however, the article is neither encouraging open homosexuality or the resulting expensive witch-hunts. This bill is a postive step, we would like to congratulate the DPR. |
| Date | 13:28:40, October 15, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Elitist Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | OOC: it happened a mistake. I fully support the article regarding homosexuality (now article 1) and have doubts about the chemical weapons issue. |
| Date | 15:43:47, October 15, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We cannot accept either of these proposals. Article 1 is discriminatory towards homosexuals, and to suggest "brave soldiers" who are homosexual should keep it secret is both offensive and unacceptable to a modern military. And the LDP believe that chemical and biological weapons should never be used for any reason. We have a responsibilty as human beings never to use these inhumane weapons. |
| Date | 17:23:13, October 15, 2009 CET | From | People's Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | But are these not steps in the right direction? The complete abolition of discrimination towards homosexuals will never occur while certain parties are members of the Anti Homosexual Union. With Article 2, at least the use of biological is curbed, rather than the 'fire and forget' policy that is currently in place. We urge the LDP to reconsider, we must move in a positive direction, no matter how limited the progress. |
| Date | 17:23:51, October 15, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Restoration Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We fully support the proposed legislation. A don't ask, don't tell policy is, like the PPR mentioned earlier, neutral, and the use of chemical weapons in civilian areas in unacceptable. |
| Date | 20:01:36, October 15, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We could perhaps accept Article 2 as a step in the right directon as the new policy will at least save innocent lives. But we find Article 1 is unacceptable. We could not vote for something that is so clearly discrimatory to so many Rutanian citizens. We also find the wording of the bill to be offensive. What possible tests could be done to "prove" a homosexual is inadequate to fight along side a hetrosexual? I don't think that's ever been the issue. And frankly, if any soldier refues to serve alongside a homosexual, they do not belong in Rutania's armed forces. Just as we do not allow racists in the army. By proposing these bills, we only encourage bigots like the Heritage Party and other members of the Anti-Homosexual Union. |
| Date | 03:05:33, October 16, 2009 CET | From | United Democrats | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | To the LDP, so you would prefer that homosexuals were forbidden to join the Rutanian armed forces? Our comments regarding "tests" was meant to illustrate that there IS no "homosexual test" because there is no correlation between sexual preference and the ability to serve in the military. Sorry for the confusion, we meant no offence and the DPR are a devout supporter of gay rights. |
| Date | 09:36:51, October 16, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | I think it's clear from what I've said that I do believe that homosexuals should be allowed in the military. Yet again, I'm not sure where the confusion is. |
| Date | 09:37:48, October 16, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | And, you are not a "devout supporter of gay rights" as you advocate a policy where homosexuals should keep their orientation a secret as not to cause anyone offence. |
| Date | 09:42:21, October 16, 2009 CET | From | United Democrats | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We fully understand and agree with you that homosexuals should be allowed in the military, but surely this proposal is better than out right refusal? Under current legislation upon joining the army applicants are put through psychological tests to determine sexual preference among other things. This legislation would remove this section of the test as it would be no longer forbidden for a homosexual to join the armed forces. This is surely a step forward. We understand that you would like there to be no restriction for homosexuals to join the military, but in the current climate the DPR don't think that is possible. |
| Date | 10:49:58, October 16, 2009 CET | From | Rutanian Heritage Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We will not allow Rutania's military to become a catalyst for the abstract and arbitrary ideologies of the far-left establishment, through which it can impose on society its delusional visions of 'equality', which have no grounding in human biology or the natural institutions of civilized society. Homosexuality is not only physically degenerative and inhuman by the laws that govern the nature of mankind, but it is has been considered morally reprehensible and subversive behaviour in the majority of the world's civilizations for the vast majority of history - if we can take any lesson from this at all, it is that no civilized society has ever existed in which sexual behaviour deemed immoral or unnatural has been entirely unregulated, and we have no reason to believe that such a society could or should exist in future. |
| Date | 12:27:08, October 16, 2009 CET | From | United Democrats | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We at the DPR find the RHP's comments both shocking and ill educated. In Ancient Greece, open homosexuality was encouraged, Rome too. Many of our greatest writers and thinkers were homosexual. Too insist that homosexuality is the downfall of man is nothing short of ignorance on your part. |
| Date | 13:56:39, October 16, 2009 CET | From | People's Party of Rutania | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | The PPR would like to support the DPR in the condemnation of the RHP blinkered and, quite frankly, bizarre views on homosexuality. |
| Date | 14:02:16, October 16, 2009 CET | From | Liberal Democratic Party | To | Debating the Military Act 2832 |
| Message | We join the PPR and DPR in condemning the Heritage Parties shocking views on homosexuality. I urge all parties to do everything possible to ensure their offensive politics are wiped from the political landscape of Rutania. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 169 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 125 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Treaties will be eligible for deletion if they are more than 50 in-game years old and have no currently ratified members. |
| Random quote: "I got nothing against no Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a nigger." - Muhammad Ali, 1967, refusing to fight in Vietnam |