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Bill: Education Reform
Details
Submitted by[?]: Social Democrats Union
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 3148
Description[?]:
| Now can someone tell me what are "charter schools"? From what is says free, privately run but publicly funded schools sounds pretty strange to me. Because, the schools is free as they receive government funding but they are run by a private organisation so therefore they are not subject to government regulation, right? If that is the case,I think they are a waste of government money which could be used for better purposes like maybe the autobahnen? |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Charter school policy (free, privately run, publicly funded schools).
Old value:: Charter school funding, regulation, and development is left up to local governments.
Current: Charter schools must be non-profit and have a specific focus.
Proposed: Charter schools must be non-profit and have a specific focus.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 06:06:53, July 06, 2011 CET | From | New Aloria Party (NAP) | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | OOC: So the game is wrong on charter schools acctualy. Charter schools in the United States are more public then private ones and they do fall under government regulation, instead of the normal education code they fall under Charter Law which is more strict. They are not funded the same way a normal school is funded. Tradtional schools will get paid by ADA, the attendence of the student. However charter schools have to provide work samples to get paid, if they don't show they are doing work they don't get paid. It's a lot more paperwork and falls under tougher regulations. Charter schools are also not ran by private compaines, they are operated by parents, teachers, education leaders. Failing schools are turned into charter schools. I graduated from a charter school and have fought my former school district on charter law and the school. Their are indepdent and dependent charters. Depedent ones are in a school district and don't have indepdence even when they are granted it by state laws at least in my state. This gets very complicated fast. In the end they fall under government regulation, the game does not recongize that they are not all private and does not fully understand concept of charter school. With government funding they fall under seprate regulations other then a normal education code. They also provide small class sizes, shorten schools day, and are basically indepdent study. Allowing students to get part-time jobs and take college classes. I and friends took advantage of this and it paid off big time. Some people have been able to graduate high school from charter school and be halfway done with their A.A. in college. |
| Date | 06:40:17, July 06, 2011 CET | From | Social Democrats Union | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | Oh God that is complicated. That's probably why I don't understand this "charter school" thing is because as far as I know we don't have anything like that in Germany. Although what do you mean by "allowing students to get part-time jobs?" All students can get part time jobs as far as I know, you don't have to be in a "charter school' to get a part time job. The school doesn't care if you get a job or don't. Also how can you take college/university classes whilst you're still at school? That isn't possible, well here it isn't as you need to do a test at the end of your schooling which will determine what course you will take in university, but before that, I had to be in the military for 6 months. I got good in my final school exams and now I'm in university studying psychology. So you said failing schools are turned into charter schools? Isn't that a bad thing as these failed schools probably won't do any better under a charter school as the area the school is located in is a failed area. So, from what you told me they still sound like a very strange way of educating children. And you talk about shorter school days well that is another reason why they'll fail in Germany as a German school day only goes from 8:00AM to 1:00PM, only 5 hours. |
| Date | 07:31:03, July 06, 2011 CET | From | New Aloria Party (NAP) | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | Of course anyone can pick up part-time job, I am sorry when I meant to say was charter school students have better flexabilty in getting a part-time job because of the hours normal tradtional public schools in the U.S. go from like 8am to 2 or 3pm. While charter schools can be 8am to 12pm, and some don't go to school every day. Able to go to community colleges, if they had a good GPA and take college classes, the shorter schedule allowed them to do that. That's what I first thought about them being turned into charter schools however, it's not that the area is failing sometimes. Charter schools are ran by parents, activtis, teachers, and can get better local control however depending on the school district. My school district likes to control more. Also charter schools can take any student in the county they are in, not limited to school district like tradtional schools. Charter schools acctualy don't fail really and provide more opitions for students, their are some also deciedated to certian things which is not all that normal. In the U.S., Oakland, CA their are two charter schools founded by CA governor Jerry Brown when he was the Mayor of Oakland, one is for the miltiary, and one is for the arts. Both of those have done very well. It is extremely complicated. I think that is why my school district backed down when I had the President of the National Charter School Assoication on my side. |
| Date | 08:27:36, July 06, 2011 CET | From | Social Democrats Union | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | School districts? So you mean that in America the schools in an area are first responsible to a school district then a state government then a federal government? Wow, that is way too much bureaucracy, here they are only responsible to a state government and the federal government has limited control with schools. Anyway, you said sometimes its not the area thats failing. I have to disagree with you there because if an area of a city is failed, that means the children won't care about their education and no matter what the government does like turn them into a charter school or whatever, the school will still fail because it is in a failed area. Let me give you an example, there is a school called Rütli-Oberschule which is in Neukölln and Neukölln is a neighbourhood of Berlin which is filled with immigrants and ethnics who mostly refuse to learn German and become Germans. The Rütli-Oberschule is probably one of the most violent and notorious schools in Germany and no matter how much money the government pumps into the school, it won't change a thing as that area has failed and the people need to change, not the school. Alright, back to charter schools. Have they really been proven to give students higher results or produce smarter students? If they are just schools founded by parents and community leaders in former schools which failed, then how can they possibly succeed if the former school failed and they are run by people who don't know much about education? |
| Date | 10:20:36, July 06, 2011 CET | From | New Aloria Party (NAP) | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | It goes school district, local govt (city council, mayor), state government, then federal government. Weclome to the many levles of government bleh! Yes they have, they have better preapred students for college level work load then tradtional schools. In a traditional school you have class every day, and the work is not 75% at home. For charter schools it's indepdent study with site support services(if you want to get techinal) in the end students at charter schools do most of the work by themselves while still learn from teachers but, they learn to work on their own as well as in groups but get use to the heavy workload they will get when they go to college. Now here is how some of these tradtional schools have failed, tradtional schools are ran by the Princpial but are controlled by school districts, board of trustess (I plan to run for these in 2012). Some of these members are not education leaders know nothing about education and make stupid budget proposals or whatever. So the schools have failed by: A.) Yes the area B.) Families leaving the area or moving to another school district, making the school lose students, therefore losing ADA, resulting in loss of programs etc. C.) Problems with staff/leadership. D.) LACK of qualified teachers oroversight by school district Charter Schools DO THIS: A.) More in contact with students by being ran by parents, and teachers, not school districts or politicans. b: Can take in students outside of school districts if in their county, or any county touching their county, higher population is a good thing. C: Proves students are learning, since the school is not paid by ADA but work samples showing the teachers are doing their jobs, inculding test scores etc. Also, Charter Schools have earned their full 6 year WASC before tradtional schools, while some tradtional schools fail or only get 3-year WASC. |
| Date | 14:27:12, July 06, 2011 CET | From | Social Democrats Union | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | Ok then. But what does it mean in the proposal when it says "Charter schools must be non profit and have a specific focus.?" Does that mean these schools are really only there to make a profit through government funds? Although if these schools prepare students for college/university, you can easily do it in a non-charter school. Like me, in Germany there are four types of schools in your secondary education: Hauptschule, Realschule, Gesamtschule and Gymnasium. I went to Gymnasium as it helps you with preparations for university and military service and people who went to a gymnasium are more likely to get a better place in university. However, I wouldn't necessarily say so that charter schools help students succeed as from what you said, they seem underfunded and need funds from the community and willing parents to exist. If they are there to help people who are struggling then they seem acceptable or are there for a purpose like Sports, Arts etc but other then that they seem like a waste of time and money. By the way, just wandering. Because where I live in Germany-Kaiserslautern there is a big NATO military base here. Most of whom are Americans and they say its the biggest US military population outside the USA. And the servicemen's children go to American schools here like "elementary" "middle" and "high" schools (I am yet to see a "charter" school) but only for Americans. Anyway, just wondering who are those schools responsible to because there are no school districts here. Would it be the department of defence or something? |
| Date | 23:17:02, July 06, 2011 CET | From | New Aloria Party (NAP) | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | That is where I get confused myself by the game, where it says charter schools must be non profit and have a specific focus. As far as I know they are non profit, they are free. They aren't underfunded really, it depends on the school district or local government regulating education funding. That's why I passed the bill to put the current law in place because the proposed one is very vague and does not seam to be made to understand charter schools. |
| Date | 01:44:56, July 07, 2011 CET | From | Social Democrats Union | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | That means they get government funding fi they're free. Surely the parents won't be able to afford to pay for the whole thing, they must be government funded. |
| Date | 05:50:33, July 07, 2011 CET | From | Genuine Progress Alliance | To | Debating the Education Reform |
| Message | Admittedly, I'm a bit confused with charter schools myself, since we don't have that here in the Philippines. We only have public schools and private schools. Based on what I've gathered so far, I think we would have to leave this to the local governments for now. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 97 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 521 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Alduria, Rildanor and Lourenne all have Canrilaise (French) cultures. |
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