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Bill: OOC: Coup
Details
Submitted by[?]: 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction)
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 3251
Description[?]:
| If the Imperial Council of Advisors recognize the possibility of a coup, and wish to preserve the monarchy, and election would be called with the results representing the outcome. A faction must win at least 2/3 of the seats (in Indrala's case, 500/750) to be declared victorious; since no single party has over 500 seats, it is impossible for any party to pass a law (on its own) regarding an amendment to the constitution or anything else that requires 2/3 of the legislature. If no faction emerges in victory, Indrala would be declared as being "in a state of civil war" until an election can be won with a faction having at least 2/3 of the seats. The monarchy will remain de jure intact until the end of the civil war, when a government may decide to change or leave it. Since the coup mainly concerns the monarchy, the factions will be: -Monarchists -Republicans Parties are required to state the faction of their allegiance. The passing of this bill will initiate a civil war RP, which would make an immediate in-game election necessary. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The national flag (URL).
Old value:: http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/9830/xinhanl.png
Current: https://i.imgur.com/ECxipCz.png
Proposed: http://i43.tinypic.com/1z2ndd2.png
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 23:45:21, January 27, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | My party belongs to the Republican faction. |
| Date | 00:01:00, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | OOC: Um, yeah. This needs the consent of all the players in this nation. That is how RP works. Sorry, but this is not happening. |
| Date | 00:08:39, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | That's why I created a bill for it... Did you read it? Notice how it started: "If the Imperial Council of Advisors recognize the possibility of a coup..." Which means it would only happen if there was a vote. |
| Date | 00:11:57, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | OOC: I don't think you get it. None of what you are proposing can even happen unless all of the parties agree, or a 2/3 supermajority coalition is created. There will not be a civil war so long as I am Indrala and it involves getting rid of the monarchy. |
| Date | 00:16:16, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The civil war doesn't involve "getting rid of the monarchy" as you say it. Read the bill properly before further comments. It says there will be a civil war RP, leading into elections until there is a 2/3 supermajority coalition. The fate of the monarchy will depend on whichever faction manages to grab the 2/3 supermajority. |
| Date | 00:27:32, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | There is a chance, which I will not take, to get rid of the monarchy or enter a civil war RP. If you did not notice, the Imperial Party received 65.46% of the popular vote. Clearly, that is a mandate to keep the monarchy, whether you like it or not. |
| Date | 00:32:19, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The voter turnout was less than 60%. For a rookie party, we made a sweep by managing to get 282 seats, which is over 1/3 of the seats. My party recognizes no less than 500/750 seats as a clear mandate, being that 2/3 is supermajority. |
| Date | 00:35:46, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | It can't get much higher. Sorry, but your ideal voter turnout will never happen due to the game. Due to my low visibility and not keeping it up for 100 years, any party can do that. It is part of the system. My God, you don't understand politics do you? A 51% or a coalition of 51% is a mandate. That determines who rules, but they cannot change the constitution. |
| Date | 00:37:36, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The monarchy is a matter relating to the constituion; if you cannot change it, you don't have a clear mandate. |
| Date | 00:41:02, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | There is no use in arguing politics with someone who doesn't understand it. One more point to prove my philosophy is right! Yes! |
| Date | 00:44:41, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | You do not have a clear mandate to justify the monarchy; if Indrala wasn't a monarchy, you wouldn't have enough power to change it into one, on your own, because you would need 2/3 of the votes. For a clear mandate on such a matter, you need 2/3 seats; if you don't have that, you don't have anything. The recent election results are a mandate for your pary to control the government, but not a mandate to keep the monarchy. |
| Date | 00:48:11, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | It already is a monarchy. Again, you are wrong. By your logic, no one wants a republic. Rather, they are content with the status quo. |
| Date | 01:04:39, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | We disagree. Time will tell, anyway. Allow the coup and see what happens. |
| Date | 01:09:03, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | I've given you things without anything in return. Why give you more? If you disagree with your own logic, then I have a mandate. You have really backed yourself into a small corner. |
| Date | 01:13:02, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | You're afraid to declare the presence of opposition... I do not disagree with my own logic, so you have no clear mandate. This bill is only calling for the nation to be declared an anarchy with a de jure monarch, meaning a government is absent until a party or coalition faction can grab 2/3 supermajority. |
| Date | 01:23:17, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Um, you are the opposition. Bam, declared! Then the people must be satisfied with the status quo, as they don't support a rpeublic. Again, that is not going to happen. |
| Date | 01:28:24, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | This is just a coup attempt; we never expected a cowardly response. |
| Date | 01:29:58, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Everyone has their own opinions, whether they be right or wrong. |
| Date | 04:53:52, January 28, 2012 CET | From | Jelbanian Liberty Front | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | We will send 10,000 men to support the Republicans mainly military advisors. |
| Date | 06:25:50, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | As that would require the consent of all the players involved, it shall be ignored. |
| Date | 16:14:59, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | OOC: -In RL, a coup wouldn't be "stopped" by lacking the consent of all players. -Game rules may decide what de jure standings exist, but the Eastern parts of Indrala have made a de facto breakway from the monarchy. There is a de facto uprising, and whether or not you allow this bill to pass, the same things will happen; we will be in a contest for power until one of us gets 2/3 seats. The point of this bill was to allow respect for whoever gets the supermajority, but since you don't want me to respect the monarchist factions (if they get a supermajority), I won't. |
| Date | 16:58:59, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | OOC: Exactly, but this isn't real life. Also, since my party would have over 60% of the votes in the legislature and control of the government, it could arrest all of the leaders of the uprising, makes examples of them, and put down the rebellion. However, in this game, that would require your consent. I refuse to place the monarchy in danger. And game rules say that you can't do that. Do I need to complain to moderation? I really don't want to, but I'm starting to get tired of you attempting to push RP on me. |
| Date | 17:04:26, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | This isn't RP; I do not recognize the monarchy and I'm going to change it as soon as possible. Along with that, I will abstain or vote against any bill that needs a 2/3 supermajority; blocking them from being passed. |
| Date | 17:10:12, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | OOC: This would be an RP. I don't understand what you do not get here! If actions do not deal with the game variables, then it is RP. Debating on bills is RP, foreign affairs to an extent is RP, and etc. I will NOT consent to any RP that could potentially damage the monarchy. Fine. I have everything that I want, so why would I change it? |
| Date | 17:24:33, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The actions are dealing with the game variables... Read the bill properly. If it was passed, we'd simply declare that there's no stable monarchy or republic, until one of us can gain a 2/3 supermajority in seats. That's all. The monarchy would remain in place, since it's here already (before the bill) and the change to a republic would only happen if I gain a 2/3 supermajority and change it myself. If you gain that majority, the monarchy is stable again. The country would just be declared unstable until one of us gains the 2/3 supermajority. To make things easier, during this time, we could have elections every 24 months (the most frequent allowed in the game) just until one of us wins a 2/3 supermajority. |
| Date | 17:29:06, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | "If it was passed, we'd simply declare that there's no stable monarchy or republic" "The country would just be declared unstable until one of us gains the 2/3 supermajority" That is RP. So, you need to read your own bill more carefully. Our current system, which allows for parties to drastically increase their visibility, is fine. 750 seats are pretty representative of the people and equal representation ensures that all receive an equal say and that no tyranny of the majority can form. Frequent elections=chaos, nothing gets done, and adequate people loose the chances of keeping their seats and doing good. |
| Date | 17:37:00, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Are you saying that democratic election processes threaten your party's power? |
| Date | 17:40:23, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | This is all OOC by the way. No, not at all, but I refuse to even take the chance of the monarchy being removed by someone hell bent on changing on nation to a republic and erasing the hundreds of years of monarchy away. |
| Date | 17:43:24, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | We are begging for one more early election, while the newest party has high visibility, which it lacked in the most recent elections. |
| Date | 17:47:14, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Again, this isn't going to happen. Wait for the next election cycle. |
| Date | 17:51:17, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Elections are held every 6 years... That is quite a long wait (it's the longest possible wait in the game). It shows that you don't want to have elections at all. |
| Date | 17:54:57, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Yeah, so? I'm not the one who wanted to come to Indrala to destroy it. I'm quite content with how things are. Why would I want to change them? |
| Date | 18:08:08, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | You have already destroyed Indrala... |
| Date | 18:09:35, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | No, not really. Giving it a culture, history, and relevance on the international stage is basically bringing it to the forefront of all the nations of Terra. |
| Date | 18:56:10, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The Republic will allow a real culture, based on the people instead of a puppet family that runs jokes with the media. |
| Date | 19:38:07, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Real culture? I believe Indrala has a real culture, a culture where intelligence and virtue are highly valued, where anyone can move up or down in society, where people who involve themselves in mercantile activities and looked down upon while those who actually produce something for their country are praised. The list goes on and on, but the utopia your party wishes to create is not possible, for the Indralan culture is among the best in the world. |
| Date | 19:59:02, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | Anyone can move up and down? Let's see the monarch move down, then... |
| Date | 20:03:30, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | The monarch is not anyone. His Imperial Majesty is the father of the nation. His love for the people is evident and shows that the nation is more of a family than anything else. He is also the Son of Heaven, appointed by Tian/Shangdi to act as His representative on Earth. All others, including the non-immediate members of the Imperial Family may rise and fall based upon their own merits. |
| Date | 20:21:17, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 鑫派 / Xīnpài (Xin Faction) | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | I do not reognize the right of the word "heaven" to be used in anything relating to government, and I do not recognize the emperor as father of anything except his spoilt offspring, if he has any. |
| Date | 20:56:58, January 28, 2012 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the OOC: Coup |
| Message | That is your right, but it is part of the culture regardless. Their Imperial Highnesses are just babes, who will be put through rigorous schooling like any other individual, enter the military academy, serve a term in the military, and take up several ceremonial duties. I can assure you, the Imperial Family is not spoiled by any means. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 282 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 468 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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