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Bill: The State Secularism Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: People's Socialist Labour Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 3346
Description[?]:
| To ensure a secular Ikradon and end the pervasive influence of religion. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Current: The government requires foreign missionaries to register with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Proposed: Foreign missionaries are not permitted to enter the nation.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state has the right to veto the appointment of any ministers of religion.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state nominates ministers of religion, but the appointment is left up to the religious communities themselves.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religious organizations are not permitted to actively promote themselves or advertise, however evangelism is permitted by individuals.
Current: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Proposed: Religions are not permitted to promote themselves or advertise in any manner whatsoever.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change
Taxation of religious institutions.
Old value:: Religious taxation policy is left to the local governments.
Current: Religions are treated as companies, and all profit is taxed, however, charitable donations are not taxed.
Proposed: All religious income, despite the use, is taxed.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The state's policy concerning religious clothing.
Old value:: There are no laws regulating the wearing of religious clothing and the wearing of religious symbols.
Current: There are no laws regulating the wearing of religious clothing and the wearing of religious symbols.
Proposed: Wearing religious clothing or religious symbols in public is illegal.
Article 6
Proposal[?] to change The governments stance on religious schools.
Old value:: Any religion may set up a school, but they are strictly regulated.
Current: Religious schools are allowed, but are strictly regulated. Only recognised religions may set up religious schools.
Proposed: Religious schools are not allowed.
Article 7
Proposal[?] to change Remuneration of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Current: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Proposed: Ministers of religion shall receive no remuneration whatsoever.
Article 8
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning religions.
Old value:: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Current: There is no government policy concerning a state religion.
Proposed: Any form of religion is banned.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:58:15, August 03, 2012 CET | From |  Green-Left Communalist Collective | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | We would support Article 2 and Article 6 however the rest of this Bill is authoritarian. |
| Date | 03:10:09, August 03, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | While our stance may be seen as authoritarian by some, we have seen what religion can do in Terra and we have to ensure that our citizens, especially our impressionable youth, are not being brainwashed or indoctrinated with illogical, archaic, and often destructive fairytales. |
| Date | 12:39:54, August 03, 2012 CET | From | Green-Left Communalist Collective | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | Our only real objection is article 5. |
| Date | 13:14:47, August 03, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | Article 5 has been discussed at length in Ikradon before. Most previous compromises had viewed that issue as not allowing the establishment of specific buildings of religion or organizations proclaiming a religion, but allowing for private in-home worship spaces as long as children were not being forced to comply (or something to that effect). (OOC: Also, RP legislation can be added to affect the consequences, but wouldn't have any mechanical effect on issue positions.) |
| Date | 13:16:25, August 03, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | If there were an intermediate step between the "full ban" and the "no state policy" positions, I would probably opt for that wording better, but we feel some anti-establishment stance should be codified, and that is the only one available. |
| Date | 18:49:12, August 03, 2012 CET | From | Green-Left Communalist Collective | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | With the clause proposed by the SCI stating that the Government have no policy or jurisdiction regarding in-home private worship, we will be willing to back this Bill. Our Syndicate constitution guarantees our devotion to freedom of expression whether that be spiritual, however, organised religion has been a scourge of humanity since it's evolution to intelligence! - Dungreit Cumbric, the Syndicate's Prif of Education and Culture Policy |
| Date | 21:47:57, August 03, 2012 CET | From | People's Socialist Labour Party | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | We won't accept anything less than a total ban on religion. It is a mental disease and we cannot allow more of our citizens to be infected with it. |
| Date | 21:49:40, August 03, 2012 CET | From | People's Socialist Labour Party | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | OOCly: Sorry to fiddle with an existing bill, but I ran out of proposals last time and there were a few bits I didn't catch. |
| Date | 11:56:25, August 04, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | @PSLP: The existence of private in-home worship spaces is a completely non-negotiable point. Even if we were to completely ban religious practice by individuals, their right to privacy would not allow authorities to invade their homes in order to discover this. You can't stop people from actually believing what they want, but you can prevent easy access for these destructive memes to infect impressionable youth. |
| Date | 02:42:35, August 05, 2012 CET | From | Green-Left Communalist Collective | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | The addition of Articles 7 has put many of our Members of the Presidium off supporting the bill. We will be considering a poll by our members over the next couple of days. |
| Date | 20:03:58, August 05, 2012 CET | From | People's Socialist Labour Party | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | We won't negotiate. To us only a complete ban is acceptable. |
| Date | 22:17:37, August 05, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | I'm going to ignore your "total ban" bluster and state unequivocally that I support the right to privacy. |
| Date | 23:22:56, August 05, 2012 CET | From | Green-Left Communalist Collective | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | We wish the implementation of many of the bill's articles success; however, we regret the majority of our members have decided for a vote against this bill on grounds of our 'statism vs anarchism' philosophy. |
| Date | 05:00:33, August 06, 2012 CET | From | SCI Libertarian-Socialist Syndicate (LL) | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | Understandable A-HS. The SCI has wrestled internally for many years with the paradox of a libertarian party desiring the ban of something.... |
| Date | 18:49:43, August 06, 2012 CET | From | People's Socialist Labour Party | To | Debating the The State Secularism Bill |
| Message | Our bluster was not for a "total ban", it was for a "complete ban". Those are totally different words. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 384 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 297 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 69 |
| Random fact: Parties have the ability to endorse another party's candidate for the Head of State election (if there is one). This adds a strategic element to the elections. |
| Random quote: "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...[where] the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." - James Madison |