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Bill: Council for a Cultural Monarchy
Details
Submitted by[?]: Provisional Government of Dranland
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 3594
Description[?]:
| This will serve as a space where negotiations can be conducted on forming the triumvirate. All are welcome to contribute (OOC: although, at the end of the day, it's the three people I nominated who will have the most influence over the final decision, which will be made by the Prez, i.e. me). |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:33:46, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: As someone who roleplayed a unificaciónist Draniano party until very recently, I have a special interest in the Draniano perspective on this. Truth is, I think they'd be very divided on this issue. Many of them will be republicans. After all, Dranland has been a republic for centuries. Amongst those with monarchist sympathies, there will be a lot of splits... The unificaciónists, who I perceive to constitute a significant minority of the Dranianos, will strongly oppose the concept of a "King of the Dranianos" because to recognise such a monarch would be to appear to recognise the Dranianos and the Egelians as two separate peoples, and to recognise Dranland and Egelion as two separate countries. Actually, even the unificaciónists are split amongst themselves. A majority want Francisco de Nueva to be "King of the Egelians", although many are unhappy with him. de Nueva is a very political, very controversial character in Egelion. He would be unpalatable to many in Dranland - across all of our communities here. Now let's come to the non-unificaciónist Dranianos who are pro-monarchy... Some will reject the idea of a "triumvirate", believing a Draniano should reign alone as monarch of the whole of Dranland. There is also no clear candidate for who any "King of the Draniano" should be. The Santiagos, perhaps? But they have lot of historical/political baggage. Plus, of course, there are all the moderation rules about ownership of royal houses etc.... To be honest, I'm dubious that the Dranianos would have much enthusiasm for a Triumvirate Monarchy, and I'm doubtful they would revere a Draniano monarch in quite the same way the Kyo revere their royal house. BUT...if the Draniano are to have a monarch figure, then my suggestion is that in order to avoid a massive political split between the unificaciónists and the anti-unificaciónists, they should pluck for an aristocrat with a rank below that of King. How about a Duke (or should I say, a "Duque")? The Duque de Ulbrach (someone I've just invented...), for example, might agree to serve as a joint Head of State as a representative of the Draddwyr community. But he wouldn't style himself as a "King" or "monarch" - thus avoiding all the political problems that would go along with that. By the way, here is another little idea that popped in to my head... If we are tinkering around with proposals for reforming the Head of State role, how about floating the idea of giving some special role to the Selucian Patriarch Church's Cardinal Hosiano Ruíz Eduardoso, Primate of Dranland and Archbishop of Iglesia Mayor? As for the Grand National Party...some of its members will be sympathetic to the Triumvirate proposal, but I think the leadership is likely to be opposed. It is likely to be especially resistant to the idea of the junta changing the constitution without the support of Parliament (if it tries to do that). |
| Date | 15:03:50, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Popular Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC'ly I am opposed to a triumvirate because I think the presidency adds an interesting angle to RP. The PP would ask be strongly opposed because of our view that the head of state should be democratically elected. We would obviously resist any attempt by the junta to impose a triumvirate unilaterally. |
| Date | 15:12:02, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Popular Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Obviously, some players have been more involved in RP surrounding the junta than others(including myself) and the RP has certainly been very good, but I do have some concerns about this decision being made by only four players, as it will, at the end of the day, affect all players in Dranland. |
| Date | 15:57:14, November 10, 2013 CET | From |  Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC When Beluzia was the "Bloc of Beluzia" - what really happened is that there were 2 sovereign entities that were at war, eventually coming to a peace agreement because they finally settled border disputes and threw away unification ambitions. They formed a bloc ICly because they used the same currency and their economy was once a whole/single economy before the civil war. The Englightened Republic had its own President and the High Count was head of state to the pro-oligarch side of the divide. To put them together, we had a "Bloc Chairman" http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=361362 The Chairman was directly-elected. His job was to mediate between the 2 sovereign entities. |
| Date | 21:28:13, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Two things: firstly, we'll retain the Presidency (perhaps with a different title, like High Representative). Secondly, although it's logical that the government calls the shots, I am making a deliberate effort to consult everyone. Plus, there'll probably be a vote on this. |
| Date | 22:54:26, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: If it's already decided that we're keeping the presidency, then I don't know why this discussion is occurring. Unless the presidency becomes only the HoG. |
| Date | 23:36:57, November 10, 2013 CET | From |  姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: You could keep the title of President to act as the democratically elected representative of the three monarchs. Also, do the unificationists really see themselves as 100% as Egelians, even though they probably look more like Filipinos? It would be difficult to say that the Dranianos are pure Egelians, after inhabiting a land full of Draddwyr and Kyo for hundreds of years. Not to mention, having a Duke as a representative would immediately place the Kyo and Draddwyr kings above the Dranianos rep., allowing for continued ethnic strife due to such inequality. The same situation goes for a SPC representative. Since the religion isn't universal amongst the population, why would the Kyo or Pagan Draddwyr view the representative on an equal level with their monarchs? Would the Dranianos monarchists really be that stubborn and opt for a republic instead of a chance at having some sort of monarchy with their desire monarch playing a co-role? |
| Date | 23:54:35, November 10, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: What Liu Che is suggesting is what I was trying to bring up with my mention of the Bloc of Beluzia. The Bloc Chairman was directly-elected by the people, and served as a mediator between the sovereign entities within Beluzia. A democratically-elected office could serve to do the same with Dranland's 3 monarchs. |
| Date | 00:25:15, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Liu Che, yes you're right about the unificaciónists being culturally a bit different to the Egelians living in Egelion. The thing is, though, that because of their political commitment to "Egelia", they're somewhat in denial about their "Dranishness" because it emphasises their similarity to the Dranish Draddwyr & Kyo and their different from the Egelians in Egelion. Unificaciónism is a cultural and not just a political phenomenon. Unificaciónists will be very deliberately trying to make themselves "more Egelian" and "less Dranish"... You're also right that most of the Dranish population is not SPC, so yes - an SPC Head of State would not "represent" everybody. On your last point, until a few centuries ago (I think) the Dranianos were a clear majority in Dranland. Even now, a proportion of them would not like the idea of having a formally recognised Kyo monarchy or a Draddwyr monarchy. |
| Date | 00:28:42, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOCly, I think the concept of having an elected President as the "representative" of 3 monarchs each representing 3 different cultural groups is so convoluted that it becomes a bit unrealistic. After all, surely citizens elect a President to represent THEM, not to represent 3 unelected people with hereditary titles :). |
| Date | 00:32:49, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Here's an alternative... The government could grant official "recognition" to the Kyo monarchy, and also to a Draddwyr monarchy and a Draniano monarchy (or dukedom or whatever). But not give them any formal constitutional power. ie. the Head of State would continue to be the President. Perhaps the monarchs could be given a symbolic role at certain state occasions, like the annual opening of Parliament, or the swearing in of the President & Taoiseach. |
| Date | 00:50:33, November 11, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I'm not just talking culturally, I'm talking ethnically as well. Do they not see that they are also ethnically different, simply by the way they look? Yes, that is mostly true. I know the change occurred to make things a bit more realistic and unique. How so? Many nations have that as a Governor General or Viceroy system. You can use a different term instead. Your alternative is technically what is in place. Recognizing that titles can be used, not granted, and they don't have any real legal status. Also, Taoiseach needs to change. Does everyone know that is an Irish title? |
| Date | 01:11:39, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Perhaps the President (or whatever you want to call it), who represents the monarchs, could be elected by Parliament. Alternatively, the head of state position could rotate between the three monarchs on an annual basis, or could go to the monarch who satisfies a certain criteria (e.g. the longest-reigning monarch exercises reserve powers). |
| Date | 01:12:51, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: And yes, that is a change from my previous position. As for the Taoiseach, we'll, I'd imagine that the Welsh (Draddwyr) are culturally fairly similar to the Irish, |
| Date | 01:14:13, November 11, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: So then just make the President like the Spanish President of the Government, thus being the HoG? I think a rotation would be a bit problematic seeing as how eventually there will be parties who will disagree. I think the second option that you suggest would be better. |
| Date | 01:17:20, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: And as for the complaints provoked by having a Duke to represent the Draniano population instead of a King, perhaps we could give him some more elevated title (but still not king) like Sovereign Duke or some other silly-sounding fudge, or maybe just Monarch. Perhaps, in Dranish law, all three would have the title Monarch; they can choose to be addressed as King or whatever they like, but the title (unlike the position) would have no legal recognition. |
| Date | 01:38:53, November 11, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: So like Grand Duke or Archduke? So what, the official HoS title will be: "Monarchs of Dranland"? |
| Date | 01:43:24, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Maybe a more descriptive title for HoS; like maybe the "Three Cultural Monarchs of Dranland" or something along the lines of providing recognition towards the cultural/ethnic emphasis. If that makes any sense.. And my preference is to see the President be an appointed HoG. Officially titled as the "President of the Council of Ministers" or something like that. The only way I see an additional directly elected individual (like a Governor-General) working is if the HoS is also made the HoG. But constitutionally, we would recognize that only the elected figure is head of government, not the monarchs as well. |
| Date | 02:00:04, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Would you like a merged HoS/HoG elected by the parliament like Lodamun? |
| Date | 02:02:38, November 11, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Yes, but if that was the title, couldn't anyone claim to be the real cultural monarch? |
| Date | 02:32:28, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Preferably I'd like to see each monarch mentioned so to prevent what you say. And it would best accomplish the idea of emphasizing the three Dranish cultures. |
| Date | 02:36:56, November 11, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: All that you would have to write is "X, King of the Draddwyr; X, King of the Dranianos; X, King of the Kyo". It is as simple as that. Of course, if you guys want to get more creative with styles and extra titles, that would also be cool. |
| Date | 16:44:54, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Hosianisch-Demokratisches Verbund | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: H&GS has a Governor-General system. Of course, our history slightly demands that because ethnic divisions have caused so much trouble and Graf Michels sort of decided that an integrative representative of the Crowns à la the GG of Greater Hulstria would be needed to ensure a consociational-ish symbolism that the Crowns were truly a national affair. Of course. Dranland wants their monarchies to be distinct, not integrative, so the logic would be slightly different. |
| Date | 19:39:33, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: There is an old-fashioned, tried-and-tested way of reconciling competing dynasties. Namely, marriage. Maybe the Kyo King could marry his son to a Draddwyr aristocrat, then they could marry their son to a Draniano aristocrat...and then - hey presto! - the offspring of that union could become a "King of Dranland", with royal Kyo, Draddwyr and Draniano blood in his veins. No need for a "Triumvirate" then - just one Dranish monarch. |
| Date | 19:51:35, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I'm surprised Aquinas didn't suggest for Egelion to be in that mix XD But how willing is Dranland to adopt a monarchy? Didn't you say most players are Republican? This is why I'm suggesting Lodamun's model. It's used in real countries: - Botswana - Cuba - Marshall Islands - Nauru - South Africa - Suriname You can have a parliamentary system without a monarchy. |
| Date | 19:53:26, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I don't agree with forcing the creation of a mixed-blood single monarch. I don't think this would be popular either, particularly for the Kyo. Mixing the three cultures, while in theory would create a unified "Dranish" monarch, it would also very easily create perceptions that the traditional singular cultures are being eroded away, in favor of this so-called "Dranish Monarch." |
| Date | 20:32:34, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | To be honest, I'm becoming increasingly doubtful that the triumvirate proposal is going to work. Just seems too convoluted. I've got quite a lot of sympathy for Siggon's proposal for some kind of merged HoS/HoG, appointed by Parliament. Another idea I'm keen on is the Executive Presidency. ie. the directly elected President is HoS and HoG, and we have a convention that the players allow the President to appoint whatever Cabinet he wants. So in effect, you have the government roleplayed by one player (which I personally think makes things a lot easier - so long as the government player is active & reasonably experienced/competent). |
| Date | 20:36:51, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: The directly-elected HoS/HoG can cause a lot of problems. They happened before. Also, direct elections seem so random, and the player gets to keep the post until the next elections. The HoS/HoG appointed by parliament allows the parliament to replace the President at any time. It suits a country with so many parties. Coalitions will matter more than this random direct election. |
| Date | 20:41:07, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Endorsements from other parties are very important to determining the outcome of Presidential elections, so they're not entirely random. But I take your point - they can produce strange results (as we experienced in the last presidential election, as it happens!!!) |
| Date | 20:42:07, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | I think the triumvirate can work fine with an appointed HoS/HoG. The HoG has the governmental power, etc. and the HoG is recognized as a symbol of the united Dranish state, within the broader HoS. Also within the HoS would be the three monarchs, who serve no purpose beyond their ceremonial and cultural status in their respective Dranish communities. And even with a directly-elected HoS/HoG, it can still work. The monarchs are recognized in the way previously mentioned, and the elected leader is the actually power-holder and one in charge of the government. And it could be in an fully executive fashion, with the elected leader having the sole ability to appoint a cabinet. |
| Date | 20:50:12, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Yes, that's a good point, you could have the "Executive President" model even with the triumvirate monarchy. |
| Date | 20:57:28, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Here's another strange election result from direct elections: http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=392144 Zongxian, the "sole ability to appoint a cabinet" doesn't mean the sole power to pass a cabinet proposal. When the directly-elected HoS/HoG doesn't have a majority support within the parliament, a cabinet proposal becomes almost impossible. |
| Date | 21:04:09, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | My preference is not for there to be a sole power to appoint a cabinet, I'm just going off of Aquinas' proposal. |
| Date | 21:19:46, November 11, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | If you have a directly-elected merged HoS/HoG, it doesn't matter whether there is sole power to appoint the cabinet or not. Regardless of who proposes the cabinet, the directly-elected HoS/HoG can veto it: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4697 You can't propose a cabinet that the HoS doesn't approve of, and the HoS can't propose a cabinet that the majority of the parliament doesn't approve of. It caused deadlocks in Dranland before. There is no point in having a directly-elected merged HoS/HoG in a country with so many parties. |
| Date | 03:43:20, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Considering the recent news regarding the Draddwyr nominations for their monarch, there arise new issues in achieving the triumvirate. Currently I am thinking of other systems of government and one that came to my mind is this: A parliamentary appointed president (or head of state by another title) who serves ceremoniously and has a 5 or 10 year term. This HoS would rotate through the three ethnic groups who receive a parliamentary nomination to represent their section of the Dranish community. The regulation be that a person can only serve once and a particular group cannot be HoS consecutively. Example: Kyo President --> Draddwyr President --> Dranianos President --> Kyo President --> Etc. Again the president would be appointed by parliament and be ceremonial. At the HoG would be a prime minister, as current. I thought of including other groups, like representatives of the religions of Dranland, in the presidency; but there are potential problems since obviously a religious leader is most likely from one of the three ethnic groups. This would upset the 'two term wait regulation,' but then again, I suppose it is possible to make the religious reps be an exception to the regulation on the order of ethnicity. |
| Date | 03:49:13, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: If we want to have a Presidency representing the ethnic groups, what about using the Swiss model of having a collective HoS? Then we could have a three-member Presidency (with co-Presidents or whatever the title may be) which exercises power by consensus (and with the HoG's advice, of course). |
| Date | 03:54:46, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I prefer EEL's suggestion if this HoS will be a President. I prefer a co-Presidency than a rotating Presidency. If it's going to be rotating, maybe a rotating monarchy would make more sense. |
| Date | 04:03:37, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Actually, Bosnia has a three-person presidency, though they also have a chairmanship within the trio determined by means not possible in Particracy. The Swiss model does a rotation, which would be better for us (if we did want to designate a specific President). Though we certainly can't do yearly rotations like Switzerland. It'd have to be a longer duration. The other issue is what are the term limits for the three-members; does each get to be president in the rotation, or does the system end up leaving out a member or two because of conflict with term-limits. The only way I could think this could be resolved is if the three-members had, for example, 12-year single terms. And each gets 4 years as President and 8 years as a Vice President. Or we could just not designate a rotation and they're all collectively co-presidents, as you say. |
| Date | 04:13:09, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Anything is possible in Particracy. You can work around game mechanics. The co-Presidency makes more sense, though. |
| Date | 09:04:20, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I'd say that 12-year terms would be too long. What about 9-year terms? We could have staggered terms, so one President is elected every three years. I say that we limit them to one consecutive term; it'd be pretty rare, I'd imagine, for someone to be able to serve twice given the length of the terms. |
| Date | 12:59:34, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: That was what Zongxian was saying, just with 12 years (4 as President and 8 as VP) instead of 9 (3 as President and 6 as VP). |
| Date | 18:26:34, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Zardio Federisma Partio | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I like the Bosnian example that could work here. For the head of state position we could make the HoS hereditary and symbolic and put in the 3 Kings or leaders or whatever we want to call them. Then the HoG could become the President of the Cabinet |
| Date | 18:35:01, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: That isn't the Bosnian example. What you'e suggesting was already suggested by Liu Che... I like it. |
| Date | 20:51:11, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Drania Cívica 🏴 시민당 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: It would not be possible to completely copy the Bosian model. Each of the three presidents is directly elected from his own ethnic region, and the person with the highest percentage of the vote in their region gets the chairmanship of the presidency. We can't do that here, it'd be too complicated. |
| Date | 21:08:12, November 12, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Set up an electoral college like Beluzia did. If you want, I can run these elections for you. |
| Date | 23:39:01, November 12, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I still think that the monarchists and republicans can be easily reconciled by having the three monarchs in place with an elected representative. Placating both sides would create a stronger more united nation, calling for compromise from both sides. |
| Date | 00:18:16, November 13, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Yes, I like Liu Che's suggestion of a ceremonial triumvirate and an executive President. Like Lodamun, however, I think this executive President should be elected by the parliament. |
| Date | 07:24:49, November 13, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Who would exercise reserve powers? |
| Date | 10:40:00, November 13, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: The elected representative, a la a Viceroy or Governor-General. It is not so strange to have such a representative act on behalf of the monarch, even if elected. Plenty nations in Terra have such a position. Not to mention, you could always view the appointment of such an individual at the advice of the government. |
| Date | 11:00:26, November 13, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Maybe we could ignore the election and just say that the candidate was nominated by the Monarchs and approved by the HoG (or the other way around). As a convention, I think that extremist parties which would be unlikely to get a nomination refrain from running candidates for the HoS position. |
| Date | 11:02:10, November 13, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Yes, that would be a good option and make it more unique than the other systems. |
| Date | 18:45:47, November 13, 2013 CET | From | Dranish Union of Metzists | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I think the systems proposed here would work very well in a country with 1, 2 or 3 parties - Dranland rarely ever remembers to elect a Speaker, the issue of nominating the three monarchs might be a pain. I can't identify a single player right now with a strong interest in either Draddwyr of Dranianos ceremonial monarchy RP and management - I myself certainly don't . I suppose the Kyo monarchy would be in safe hands with Ryouta. |
| Date | 21:08:02, November 13, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: If you guys come up with a system, I'll design a spreadsheet for it and calculate who has more weight in nominations of monarchsand stuff. Look how I set up committees in Lodamun... I can set up an electoral college for each of the 3 monarchies. |
| Date | 23:14:27, November 13, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Reddy, that actually is a bit sad, because it shows how little individuals are interested in Draddwyr and Dranianos histories, thus showing that the players really don't care about the cultures of Dranland. Rather, players only care about passing bills and writing stories purely on politics. Of course, people are entitled to these opinions. |
| Date | 00:11:16, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Liu, that isn't fair. The cultures are important in Dranland. Have you noticed that the political crisis in Dranland has largely been brought about by conflicts between (and to some extent, within) the cultures? And there are people in the Dranland community who are very interested in the cultures. Zongxian has long RP'd a Kyo party. I've RP'd both Kyo and Draniano parties. OneTime has RP'd several Draniano parties. Selcrus and LibCoyote have RP'd a series of Draddwyr parties. We've even had a few Kazulian-based parties. Dumping negativity on us doesn't help anyone. |
| Date | 00:25:28, November 14, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: What? I'm not trying to portray Dranland in a negative light. Each player has their own flaws. I'm just saying, it isn't really hard to come up with names for a Dranianos and Draddwyr monarch. It is extremely easy. Saying that the nomination process would be too difficult is just a cop out. The main problem is that only Zongxian is consistent. The rest of you change parties frequently. That isn't a bad thing. Everyone needs something different now and then. I want to help as much as I can to see Dranland be more unique. This coup has definitely done wonders for Dranland. I actually like it now (not that I didn't like the Kyo before :)) |
| Date | 00:46:21, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | All Reddy said was: "I can't identify a single player right now with a strong interest in either Draddwyr of Dranianos ceremonial monarchy RP and management" Even if that statement was true, it would *not* mean there are no Dranish players with an interest in the Dranish cultures. That might be your assumption, coming from a rather monarchy-obsessed perspective, but it's not the reality. |
| Date | 03:17:51, November 14, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | Regardless, even maintaining some sort of history of claimants or te higher ranking members of society are still essential to culture. Elites tend to generate the general culture theough coercive means. That is realistic. If you can tell me where the cultural RP is going on with regards to te Draddwyr and Dranianos right now, please let me know. |
| Date | 09:03:24, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I think that it's the general consensus that Ryouta should be in charge of the Kyo monarchy (correct me if I'm wrong). We need to find someone to do the same for the Draddwyr and the Dranianos. For the latter, I think that Aquinas would be a suitable candidate. |
| Date | 10:23:40, November 14, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Oh yes, Ryouta has done a fine job with the Kyo. I also think Aquinas would be best for the Dranianos. That also begs the question, Aquinas, do you plan on continuing your stay in Dranland? The Draddwyr might be harder, but you could always try to persuade Jack to come and lead the Draddwyr, or have SelCrus do it from afar. |
| Date | 13:20:10, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Dranish Union of Metzists | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I don't think not caring about monarchy means that I don't care about the history or the culture of the nation. I do care a lot and if you doubt me, take a look at Badara, before I went there generic noobs had robbed it of its lovely culture and will shortly do so again. There are more than 20 monarchies in Terra and the vast majority of them do absolutely no RP, political or otherwise except maybe noting the King's birth, marriage, visits and death. This shows clearly that having a monarchy is not an RP enhancing move- it's the effort not the grand monarchical title that creates RP. I'm not opposed to monarchy in Dranland, I just don't care for it much because I don't see what real advantages it can bring to a country except perhaps a strong or absolute monarchy (like Indrala or Deltaria's) with real political benefits - stability etc |
| Date | 13:36:52, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: Good point, Reddy. Bland monarchies are just as ridiculous as bland republics. Having a paragraph of titles doesn't make it anymore interesting. I think the Triumvirate would be interesting though. If we set up an electoral college for each monarch (instead of having a single player controlling each monarch), they could be political instead of apolitical. |
| Date | 13:45:32, November 14, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I would agree completely, which is what a few in the monarchist community are trying to do, generate more activity. Just wait for the crusade within the monarchist community to eliminate the blandness. |
| Date | 20:04:52, November 14, 2013 CET | From | Grand National Party | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | I will do some work on establishing a Draniano cultural monarchy. |
| Date | 06:08:21, November 15, 2013 CET | From | 姬恩黨 (Jien Faction) 🌄 | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: I would like to point out one thing: LeCoultre is a French name. |
| Date | 07:09:30, November 15, 2013 CET | From | Provisional Government of Dranland | To | Debating the Council for a Cultural Monarchy |
| Message | OOC: We don't really want political monarchs. As for LeCoultre, he should probably change his name one he is elected (if he is elected). |
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Total Seats: 231 | |||
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