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Bill: Head of Government Reform Act 3672
Details
Submitted by[?]: Coalition for National Unity [CNU]
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 3673
Description[?]:
The Unionists originally introduced the "triple title" for our Head of Government as part of the restoration as a compromise of combining three of the most commonly used titles in Solentian history together.
However we believe the time has come for this overly complex title to be simplified and a consensus to be reached on how we refer to our Head of Government.
The Unionists favour a title that reflects the historic role of the Head of Government as the presiding officer of the Senate and as leader of the Government's legislative programme. We are willing to drop our historic dedication to the title "Lord Protector".
We therefore propose; "Government Legislative Lead".
Naturally, however, we are open to debate and discussion on this matter.
- Brenna Kyng,
Lord Protector, Senate Warden & First Secretary of State
Unionist Legislative Lead
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Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:25:45, May 28, 2014 CET |
From | Grand Liberal Party | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC
Can I make a suggestion?
How about keeping the very formal titles officially, but using something more informal on a day to day basis? You may have noticed in the press recently that Supreme President Greenmir-Jakeson prefers the more informal 'President', maybe we could do something similar with the HOG |
| Date | 20:07:54, May 28, 2014 CET |
From | Coalition for National Unity [CNU] | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: It could be that the convention allows each new HoG to opt for one of their titles as shorthand. They're entitled to all three but traditionally pick and use only one?
If that is the case, I'd like it at least altered to include "Legislative Lead" and we have used that now for a few hundred years for leaders in the House. |
| Date | 00:00:40, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: I think he is proposing that the formal Head of Government title should be changed to something like "Lord Protector, Senate Warden, First Secretary of State & Government Legislative Lead", or at least some array of titles that includes "Government Legislative Lead". |
| Date | 00:03:02, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: I find it odd that the Head of Government also presides over the Senate, since I would have thought a Head of Government would be too busy to have time to chair Senate meetings. But this is a Solentian tradition, I guess! |
| Date | 04:11:43, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Coalition for National Unity [CNU] | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: It's not really about how we feel about the name but about tradition. I wanted to include the most popular names we've used in the past and allow each HoG to select which they use. I feel that is the best consensus going forward. |
| Date | 19:09:51, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Perhaps those could be added to the array of titles Heads of Governments are permitted to style themselves with ;). |
| Date | 19:12:40, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Coalition for National Unity [CNU] | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: The reason I've listed the current ones is because they've been used by multiple players over at least a few hundred years each. We've had "Prime Minister"s before but usually its 1-2 parties pushing for a a short stretch and they die out. I've tried to balance. I personally hate Senate Warden but it's our most common one :P |
| Date | 21:21:11, May 29, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: The national flag, with the wolf, is somehow related to the Kansar dynasty, isn't it?
I have vaguely thought about making Wolfpack a pro-monarchy, because of their conservative emphasis on deference to authority and tradition. But if the republic *is* the "tradition" in Solentia, then maybe we're more likely not to want to change it... |
| Date | 00:25:11, May 30, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Also, Aquinas, if you're interested in reviving the Kansars I would be happy to allow you to do so. Anyway, the Solentian Wolf actually predated the Kansars as far as OOC goes, but the Kansars have used the Solentian Wolf as their sigil across their various exploits (in Telemon, etc). |
| Date | 00:30:56, May 30, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: LAST post in a row, promise...
I do have to say though, that as much as I'd like to see someone supporting the Kansars, Aquinas, the true tradition in Solentia really is probably republican. The Federal Republic was established in something like 2399 or so, and Bailenist Republicanism was the norm for MUCH of Solentian history. There have been monarchist deviations, but they were indeed deviations.
That all said, I'm sad you guys ditched the Millenial Republic title. It was nice to brag about 1000 years of history! Not many nations can do that. |
| Date | 00:36:39, May 30, 2014 CET |
From | Grand Liberal Party | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC:
I was disappointed to see the name change too, maybe we could bring it back as part of a grand title 'Democratic and Millennial Federal Republic of Solentia' DMFRS for short. I think it's quite snappy ...
PS no to the Kansars return, they are were awful ;) |
| Date | 01:25:22, May 30, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Nice to see you popping in Zanz, and thanks for the permission to use the Kansars - I'll think about that one! Because Wolfpack are very nationalist/Solentia-centric I suspect they might be a bit suspicious of the Kansars because of their international connections (Wolfpack see international/global conspiracies everywhere!) but you never know, prejudiced right-wing groups are not always rational in their loyalties.
Hope you'll return to Solentia sometime - especially as you seem to be one of the people who know all the old history. |
| Date | 02:54:47, May 30, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Gobbleke was here almost as long as me (only a few IG years after me and he was much more consistently active in Solentia), so he's a very good resource as well, though you can ignore all the bits he disagrees with me on, since he's very obviously wrong whenever he's in conflict with me ;)
Anyway, the Kansars actually moved to Telamon as a result of their self-imposed exile when matty.berry and his friends in the CfL proved to be taking too long to beat [that and I saw the opening pop up in Telamon ;)]. As to their nationalist credentials, don't be too hard on them! They renamed one of Telamon's counties "New Majatra" and enforced a minority Solentian rule on the Telamonese... The argument could be made that they are THE Solentia-centric family ;)
The most interesting aspect of them, in my opinion, is the whole relatively underdeveloped Quanzar/Istalia thing. Quanzar took its name, ICly, from the ancient Kansar Emirate that ruled over most of Southern Majatra. I always would have liked to work to restore that, but in any case it's a claim to fame for the Kansars who style themselves as Princes of Quanzar as well as Kings-in-Exile of the Solentians. Plenty of opportunity if you do choose to pursue them, though historically I don't think they'd know what to do with themselves if they actually took power! You might consider maybe taking them out of their royalist pretensions and having them become a legitimate political family, working within the bounds of Bailenist Republicanism... Solentia certainly has had its fair share of great families, no reason the Kansars couldn't become one of them if you want the name but not the monarchism. |
| Date | 01:18:43, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Are the Kansars ethnically Majatran (Arabic)? Some of this history I've read about them suggests they might be. |
| Date | 01:33:21, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: That was always up in the air, Aquinas. I (and I think Gobbleke too, correct me if I'm wrong) always thought that in order to bring Solentia more in line with its neighbors, the long standing "Solentian" identity (meaning American, basically) should be made to be Majatran. SenorNoPants, a longtime player here, would hear nothing of that. And so Solentians for the longest time (and really still) were an unsure identity. Myself and Meritocracy (who seems to be in Saridan now) tried to at least couple the term Solentian with "South Majatran," vaguely implying that these were somehow related to the Majatrans but spoke English and were white... It was our IC work around to SenorNoPant's OOC intransigence. But that was never satisfactory to me.
More recently Polites and myself and Salve tried to steer "Solentian" into meaning essential a PT-equivalent of Maltese, allowing the Italian influence from Istalia and the Arab influence from Majatra-proper to meld in Solentia. If you do intend to pursue the Kansars, I would suggest this route, as it sort of lends some reason to the region. |
| Date | 02:02:16, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Thanks, Zanz It's always fascinating how when you look at the history of a nation in Particracy, you always end up with a history about the player personalities lol!
The Maltese reference is interesting. I'm beginning to think we would benefit from a revised Cultural Protocols soon, to clarify this and a few other things.
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| Date | 02:11:13, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Indeed, the collective spirit of SenorNoPants, myself, Gobbleke, and Meritocracy can be said to have shaped Solentia from 2400 to as late as maybe 3300-3400 with little major involvement from others. Since then matty.berry and Salve have probably earned themselves the right to join that club too (though the Old Guard in me balks at the thought of letting in whipper-snappers) ;).
More interesting, in my opinion, is the manner in which Solentia shaped my own play style, not vice versa. In my wandering (and I was the most transient of the Solentian Heritage Coalition) I would frequently find myself behaving in a manner that I can only describe as "Solentian." I would respond to events in ways that Gobbleke or SenorNoPants or Meritocracy would doubtless have taken in stride, but those around me where ever I was were startled by my actions. It is a place very unlike anywhere else in Particracy, in my opinion, and really the only place I have felt any actual attraction in returning to even after long periods away. It's more the people than the place really. Just the thought of Gobbleke playing in Solentia again makes my blood boil that those damn Kennedies might somehow take more power than is rightfully theirs, and my defense mechanisms start firing ;) |
| Date | 02:24:29, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Well, you and Meritocracy are still around - why not both come back "home" to Solentia? :) Or does it get you too emotional & worked up? lol!
With some nations, you only really appreciate and understand them when you've played there a long time with the same people. Dranland was very much like that. To outsiders it could seem boring or even bizarre really, but to those insider it was a whole other world.
btw does the Head of Government really (ie. personally) chair the Senate in Solentia? That seems so odd to me. Here in the UK, Prime Ministers are notorious for having poor attendance rates at the House of Commons. Usually only turn up for Prime Minister's Question Time and some of the really big debates. |
| Date | 03:08:40, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Gilde Mercantile Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Yes, Aquinas. HoG chairs the Senate and is probably the only system of its kind in Terra. It is a time honoured Solentian tradition that originated from the Senate valet errr...Warden :) |
| Date | 03:21:46, May 31, 2014 CET |
From | Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: There's another age old battle you could wage if you'd like... The powers of the Supreme President and the powers of the Senate Warden have often been debated, and it has led to interesting innovations like the executive orders that you can find in the main legislature page (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=325334), among some other fun discussions on it (e.g. http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=312030). There have been times where the Senate Warden has been a Supreme President's greatest ally... It's an anecdote from before the current forum, but Kevin Sunderland, my party's first chairman and Senate Warden for one of the FIP's earlier Supreme Presidents, was all that held a tenuous FIP/Conservative Party of Solentia coalition together. When Sunderland died in a car crash and was succeeded by Julia Taylor (my first, and for a while only Supreme President eventually) it meant absolute hell for the FIP for a while. I think we went maybe a decade or two without a working government.
There were also periods where the grace of that office (Senate Warden) was enshrined. Meritocracy's Radical Nationalist Party had a Senate Warden, Harold Belisarius, who was the first true champion of the Solentian Heritage Coalition. Despite an unmatched challenge from the Federal Republican Party, who had little respect for Solentian tradition, Belisarius oversaw the position of Senate Warden (in three terms) for a total of something like 22 years. He represented (and thus the Wardenship came to represent) bipartisanship amongst the otherwise rival FIP, CPS, CMP, and RadNats in the name of the defense of Solentian tradition. |
| Date | 01:44:08, June 01, 2014 CET |
From | Wolfpack | To | Debating the Head of Government Reform Act 3672 | | Message | OOC: Am I right in thinking that at the moment, the Supreme President in Solentia is primarily a figurehead, with no real executive power? |
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