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Bill: Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture
Details
Submitted by[?]: Federal Heritage Party of Hutori
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 3719
Description[?]:
| In an effort to move us closer to a Republic and as such true democracy we propose withdrawing from this treaty. |
Proposals
Article 1
Withdraw from the Preservation of Monarchist Culture.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:46:31, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | Rt Hon Harold Clarke MP, Foreign Secretary, Madam Speaker, this is a frankly brash and arrogant proposal made by the Federalist Party who we had believed to be supporters of the Monarchial system within Hutori. We are appalled by their declaration that they wish to see Hutori turned into a Republic, a system which has ever only brough instability to the state and people of Hutori. Under such a system, the Federalist Party would wish to see all the executive power under the control of one individual, rather than the current system, which places the power in the three hundred and ninety-one members of the House of Parliament, whilst the Monarch occupies a ceremonial role to provide stability and balance to the system. Madam Speaker, the Federalists would also see Hutorian culture shattered, showing no regard for how Hutori as a nation has been historically formed and based. The Monarchy provides Hutori with influence over the other great ruling families of Terra and to see it tore down would undoubtedly result in the lessening of Hutorian status in this world. I would suggest that if the member truly believes in the Republican system, he moves to our neighbouring state of Telamon which has been a Republic for hundreds of years and has no relevance within Terra. As if he gets his wish and changes the system, he will be condemning Hutori to the international political wilderness. Madam Speaker, we cannot stress how strongly we oppose the intentions of the Federalist Party. They can achieve all they want within this elected Parliament, elected mayors and elected local councils - all through democratic means, yet they simply want to concentrate power in some sort of Presidential figure and destroy the proud royalist culture of Hutori which has existed for thousands of years. I hope all other parties realise this and vote against this Bill and all other future attempts made by the Federalists and any other parties who would wish to destroy Hutorian culture. |
| Date | 20:35:43, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | Madam Speaker, how in hell would a Republic increase instability ? Furthermore a Federal Republic is about separation of powers limiting the executive, legislative and judicial and forcing them to work in unison. While a Constitutional Monarchy is about consolidation of power with the power of the executive, legislative and judicial resting formally with the Monarchy and Informally with the Prime Minster. This is a move to preserve both the will of the people and democracy. As for the suggestion that we move that is extremely insulting we are dedicated to Hutori no matter the form of government. In addition the HCP's laughable assertion that a Republic will alienate us on an international level is absurd as plenty of Republics maintain an international presence. Also might I inquire as to how a republic will destroy our culture? OCC: How can you make the argument of changing to a Republic alienating us from the International Community knowing full well that one of the most internationally active and most powerful nations in real life is a Republic? |
| Date | 20:54:48, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | Rt Hon Harold Clarke MP, Foreign Secretary, Madam Speaker, a Republic would increase instability, it is a simple fact. Whilst this idealistic nonsense of the Federalist Party may be all well and good in theory, but in reality we look across Terra where there are Republics and all we see are weak nations. It is not by coincidence that the strongest and most influential nations, like Luthori, Hulstria and Indrala are Monarchial nations. The current system works perfectly. All Hutorian citizens are represented at a local and national level. Local councils may instill some form of federalism when the national legislative assembly deems it appropriate. The people already have local council elections, mayoral elections and Parliamentary elections to determine who governs them. The suggestion that a Presidential figure will provide any more democratic legitimacy is a silly argument, because under such a system an elected Head-of-State requires 50.1% of the vote which would allow 49.9% of Hutorian citizens to go unrepresented. Currently all Hutorian citizens are represented as by the formula for determining seats of political parties within Parliament. Madam Speaker, we do not overly care about the feelings of the member if he is willing to attempt to destroy the historical fabric of our society and rip Hutorian culture to shreds. It is quite clear that Hutorian culture has been built upon the Monarchial system, as Luthorian settlers discovered Hutori and turned it into a prosperous nation. Hutorian history has been full of great Kings and Queens and they are one of the defining characteristics of our nation. Perhaps if he would educate himself on the issue before speaking on it he would come to realise what sort of statements he is making. Madam Speaker, like i stated earlier, Hutori will lose its allies in Luthori and Indrala if we leave our Monarchial system and those states will not appreciate the removal of a legitimatly ruling Monarch and may be inclined to actively restore him. OOC : And its a game, therefore IC arguments only have to be justified within the context of the game. And the three historically most active states in the game are Luthori, Hulstria and Indrala. All are Monarchies, all three are unique. I am actively trying to turn Hutori into a state like this, which is always active and interesting. To become just another Republic makes Hutori simply another boring nation. Within the system we have now - all political parties have a chance to air their views and determine votes and play a role within international events if they are in government. To have a President or whatever, would put all the international aspects in the hands of one player. This way everyone is included no matter how small their party may be. If things are too boring for you at the moment you can always try to make things interesting here via RP - since you have yet to attempt anything of that nature. |
| Date | 20:58:08, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Green Party of Athlorcaea Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | Madam Speaker, This is matter is not a priority for my government and was never officially discussed between the Green Party leadership and the Conservative Party leadership. As such, my party will vote against and therefore the government shall take a united stance in regards to this matter. The question of whether the monarchy should remain will always be asked by some but I do not believe that this is the right time to even be questioning it, never mind beginning the process of disestablishing it. My own party has no official position regarding this matter although I know that I have MPs and members some of which oppose the monarchy, others who support it, and even some who feel it is not a pressing issue. I am not prepared to potentially split my party in half by voting voting in favour of this. My party shall have a lengthy internal discussion about the party's future position towards this matter but for now we're going to remain neutral. Personally, I do not see an urgent reason to become a republic right now and even if I did it is not something we could simply rush through, it would take years of discussions and consideration. I have also been in contact with the Minister of Internal Affairs, The Rt Hon Richard Summerfield MP, and he fully supports my decision, as does the Conservative Party leader, The Rt Hon Harold Clarke MP. The Minister of Internal Affairs highlighted that this is an issue that could seriously shake Hutorian society and may potentially cause social unrest. The Minister of Internal Affairs also noted that many presidential republics on this planet have an elected president which has few, if not no powers whatsoever, and are merely symbolic figures. Many perceive this as a waste of time when one could have exactly the same without having the financial costs of having an election. Another argument against presidential systems is also that the cabinet would face very little scrutiny as cabinet members would not be required to be members of parliament. In contrast, our current system means that all our legislators and executives are elected, are accountable, serve a purpose, and face scrutiny. So to summarise, Madam Speaker, the Greens will - following careful consideration - vote against this measure right now. This is an important issue and the two parties of government did not discuss a united position regarding this matter and therefore it would be unfair of me to vote against the Conservative Party. My party will, however, think long and hard about establishing a concrete position regarding the constitutional future of Hutori. - Wilma Rollins MP, Prime Minister |
| Date | 22:08:02, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | Reply to the HCP OCC: Honestly I want to turn Hutori in to a International Superpower akin to the U.S. where we have more international say not less. And while I understand your reasons for wanting to keep the Monarchy are intention was never to let the Head of State have full say on the cabinet in fact we wanted to have a cabinet that included everyone so that their would be interesting RPs taking place not just one or two people talking among themselves. As far as your accusation of me not attempting to RP that is completely false I was in the beginning stages of one in which I even asked you for your support yet you failed to reply then the government changed with out even one position going to the second largest party therefore hindering my attempts significantly. As for the Green Parties mention of a lack of contact this is also completely false I messaged him or her directly and asked which type of government they preferred and I quote "A republic. Either: - a presidential republic in which the president is elected by popular vote and also acts as head of government is the only person who can propose a cabinet OR - a semi-presidential republic in which the president is elected by popular vote and is the only person who can propose a cabinet but does not act as head of government" |
| Date | 22:16:45, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Green Party of Athlorcaea Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC: Firstly, foreign policy and wars play a very small and insignificant role in the game. It is extremely difficult to influence other countries in this game. Additionally, the superpowers in this game are well established and are the likes of Luthori and Indrala in particular. Making Hutori a republic just because the US is a republic wont have any impact whatsoever, sorry. Yes, what you say is true but I assumed that was OOC, it was also a few days ago, and after talking to the Conservative Party my position is according to how I voted. |
| Date | 22:24:00, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OCC: It is mostly for RP and being a republic wasn't the only thing we wanted to do it was a single step in that direction and so what if the SPs are well established so was the United Kingdom, Spain and France in 1776 and the US was just an insignificant nation we could make a similar change lets at least attempt it. As for your change of heart that it is perfectly fine just don't accuse me of acting unilaterally. |
| Date | 22:27:15, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC : Its an impossibility to turn Hutori into an international superpower similar to the U.S and the Green Party is right - it is extremely difficult to do anything internationally in this game - yet i managed through using the Monarchy to convince Luthori and Keymon appoint Hutorian princes to the Head of State positions within their states. This is about the best we can hope to achieve in regards to holding claims over any sort of foreign soil. Also having a united cabinet is irrelevant to RP. Domestic RP has much more potential storylines than international RP events so there is no excuse for failing to initiate domestic RP such as posting interesting news pieces on the forums for starters. Additionally everything the Green Party says is true. The order of states is long established with some very smart players who know what they are doing controlling them. I am trying to work with them for Hutorian interests, but our position would be severely weakened without a Monarchy in these circumstances. |
| Date | 22:28:37, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Green Party of Athlorcaea Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC: The United States became a major power through slavery and slave labour, as well as mass immigration, and huge economic growth as a result of the things I've just stated, as well as the decline in other world powers. Countries can't grow economically in this game and their populations are stuck in a defined band of 99,000,000 to 99,999,999. It's impossible to grow. |
| Date | 22:37:42, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OCC: No the U.S. became a major power due to significant natural resources along with the decline of the Monarchist Empires the U.S. didn't become a major power until after the Emancipation Proclamation and some might even argue not until after WWI and WWII. As for the RP situation well domestic RPs are fun but, so are International ones so why couldn't we take part in both? Now I will change my vote on this matter if we could seriously discus how to increase Hutori's stature in the International Community. What about all of those unclaimed territories is there anything we could do about that? |
| Date | 23:17:36, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Green Party of Athlorcaea Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC: The lands in the east are colonies of other countries but there's an active movement in this game to abolish colonies altogether. |
| Date | 23:26:36, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC : Look Federalists, it is irrelevant how the United States became a major superpower. In this game it is impossible to create a U.S. style hegemonic power. I mean look at the Davostan situation. They are our neighbours and we are completely powerless over their actions - so how can we project anything on an in-game global scale if we cannot even influence the country right next to us. And Hutori's stature has increased in the international community in the past few years since we restored the Monarchy. Currently there is a Hutorian King in Luthori and in Keymon. This gives our Royal Family claims over those territories if they reign for a period of 20 in game years. I have been actively pursuing these ends and we are also part of the CSCO Treaty group which is intended to become a highly influential organisation. As far as i am aware the colonies have all been decolonised and no-one has any real desire to start claiming territories again. |
| Date | 23:50:12, August 27, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC: I understand that it is not relevant I just was correcting some inaccuracies. I don't care about how ineffectual we are now I want to know is their anything we can do to become a major player. And I appreciate your efforts to increase our standing HCP. What is the process for colonization and what are it's pros and cons? |
| Date | 00:28:51, August 28, 2014 CET | From | Green Party of Athlorcaea Hutori | To | Debating the Treaty Withdrawal of Preservation of Monarchist Culture |
| Message | OOC: To be frank, colonisation would basically be impossible. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 0 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 371 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 20 |
| Random fact: Submitting a bill without any proposals in it will not attract or detract voters. It will not raise your visibility or change your political position. |
| Random quote: "We are told that this is an odious and unpopular tax. I never knew a tax that was not odious and unpopular with the people who paid it." - John Sherman |