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Bill: Religious Freedom Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Democratic Labour Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: October 3778
Description[?]:
| Mr Speaker, Religion has been a subject of great debate in this body as of late. It seem that more than one party is calling for an official state religion. More than one party believes that there specific religion should be the official state religion. On behalf of the Democratic Labour Party I rise today to propose the following piece of legislation. I believe that the policy of this government should continue, that there is no official state religion. I would, however, propose the following changes in our laws to allow for greater religious liberty. The people of Lodamun should be free, without the state taking any stance, to practice whichever religion they should so choose. They should be able to worship freely. They should be able to evangelize freely. Be able to choose their ministers freely. And pay their ministers whichever salary they seem fit. Anything short of that is not religious freedom. It is, in our estimation, a government ran cult. Joshua Fauver Democratic Labour Party leader |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Old value:: Foreign missionaries are not permitted to enter the nation.
Current: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Proposed: The government has no policy concerning the visitation of foreign missionaries.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state appoints all heads and other ministers of all religions.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards evangelism and religious advertising.
Old value:: Religions are not permitted to promote themselves or advertise in any manner whatsoever.
Current: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Proposed: Religions are permitted to freely promote and advertise themselves.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Remuneration of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The salaries and pensions of ministers of religion shall be borne by the state and regulated by the law.
Current: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Proposed: The state does not intervene in the remuneration of ministers of religion.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:12:56, December 24, 2014 CET | From |  Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, What Joshua Fauver fails to understand is that this will mean the destruction of Lodamese Nationalism while the other religion, Hosianism, will still be allowed to survive. While intending to be neutral, he is actually proposing something that would favour one side. "Lodamese Nationalism" is an alternative to religion that the state has control of. Hosianism, on the other hand, is a foreign ideology which allows foreign monarchies to influence Lodamun. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minster of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 22:42:38, December 24, 2014 CET | From | Democratic Labour Party | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I am not inadvertently destroying one religion while promoting the other. What Mr. Fertig is saying, when we consider what he says in this debate on this bill and on another debate on the other bills, is that Lodamse Nationalism is simultaneously a religion and not a religion. It is a form of worship while also is not a form of worship. It is a faith without being a faith. You don't get to have it both ways Mr. Fertig. What I'm proposing here is that we continue to have the state take no official stance on religion, other than that people should be able to freely practice whatever religion, faith, or creed they should choose or should be free to be practitioner at all should they so choose. But for the state to choose that Lodamese Nationalism is the official religion of this state, is for us to say that we are gods are to be worshiped. Or to be obeyed. That we know best. To form a cult where we, the government, are all powerful. If people wish to believe such, this bill provides form to freely do so, but we are not in favor of us decreeing that such will be the official religion of this nation. We believe people should be free to choose the faith they want, without government interfering in religions one way or the other. We are leveling the playing field for all faiths, or non-faiths. Joshua Fauver Democratic Labour Party leader |
| Date | 23:26:25, December 24, 2014 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | No, Mr. Speaker, Our point here is that Lodamese Nationalism is about the state. It is a religion that is managed by the state. This effectively abolishes Lodamese Nationalism while Hosianism will continue to exist. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minster of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 23:39:01, December 24, 2014 CET | From | Democratic Labour Party | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr Speaker, Perhaps Mr. Fertig is unaware that the official position of the state is already for the government not have an official religion. Such is the law already. My bill does not make that so, it is already our law. You say that your religion has to be an official religion of the state for it to exist at all. That is not true. Your religion does not have to be ran by the government for people to worship it. You want to make it as if your religion is special and has to be the official religion to exist. Hosianis too want their religion to be official. Neither should be given exception by this government. Neither should be the official religion. There should be no official religion. The state should stay out of religious practices all together. Joshua Fauver Democratic Labour Party leader |
| Date | 23:45:27, December 24, 2014 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We are not talking strictly about whether the government has an official religion or not. We did not ay that Lodamese Nationalism "has to be an official religion of the state for it to exist at all" - and I would appreciate if Joshua Fauver, who isn't even an elected Member of the Presidium like myself, would stop telling lies. I said that the religion needs to be managed by the state for it to exist. I refer specifically to these laws: - "The State appoints the heads and other ministers of religions." - "The salaries and pensions of ministers of religion shall be borne by the State and regulated by the law." Until just now, I didn't say anything about "official religion" or "official state religion" when discussing this bill. Joshua Fauver is the one who has spoken about that. This bill doesn't even feature a change on the government's policy concerning an official state religion, so that is obviously not what we are talking about when saying that this bill will effectively abolish Lodamese Nationalism. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minster of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 11:01:50, December 25, 2014 CET | From | Ecumenical Constitutional Democrat Party | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, "Lodamunese Nationalism is about the state" is all the intellectual gnome Fertig can splutter in the face of the New Left criticism of his oppressive man-made construct religion, as if worshipping tax-collectors and auditors was a self-evident truth. Yes, Fertig, we want to abolish Lodamunese Nationalism. You've no need to accuse us of it, as if it's something negative. The overwelming majority will approve these changes, and have had enough of your boorish and blatantly artificial religion. You can bleat about how "it's about the state" till Doomsday. We will vote in favour, and will treasure good relations with the DLP for generations to come for having the courage to go against the Old Left Nationalists and advocate a genuinely altruistic, and dare we say, Hosian in spirit, leftism. Gregory Cormwell Supreme Guide of the M.B. and the A.O.M. |
| Date | 18:12:48, December 25, 2014 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The MB votes in favour of this because it benefits them. They will make Hosianism the official state religion, but these laws allow the state to manage the religion. They want Hosianism to be the official state religion without the state having any say in what the religion teaches. On the other hand, Lodamese Nationalism was managed by the state even when it wasn't the official state religion. It was a tool of the state. Gregory Cormwell wants the state to become a tool of Hosianism: - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=424699 - http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=424769 When this bill is passed, it will allow just that. Hosianism will be the official state religion and the state will have no say in its affairs. The state had a say in Lodamese Nationalism, even when Lodamese Nationalism wasn't the official state religion. Now, Hosianism will be the official state religion, and have a say in state affairs, but the state won't have a say in Hosianism because of this bill. The MB and the LIP are not secularist parties. The DLP should not be fooled by them. They have their own theocratic agenda which this bill suits at the time. The DLP's intentions are Secularism, but Secularism isn't in the interest of most of the MPs who support this bill. The MB and the LIP aren't voting in favour because they support Secularism; they are voting in favour because they hate Lodamese Nationalism and they see this as a way to weaken Lodamese Nationalism so that their own religion can benefit. This bill tips the balance in favour of Hosianism, and it is not final. There is a war between Hosianism and the state. The state should win, not the Hosians. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minster of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 20:42:07, December 25, 2014 CET | From | Ecumenical Constitutional Democrat Party | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, With the passage of our recent legalisation, this bill is no longer deemed necessary by the Brotherhood. We abstain. |
| Date | 20:43:40, December 25, 2014 CET | From | Ecumenical Constitutional Democrat Party | To | Debating the Religious Freedom Act |
| Message | We also remind Fertig that it is right and just the dead hand of the state be kept from corrupting the pure and glorious faith of the believers. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 156 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 163 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 280 |
| Random fact: The influence a bill has on elections decreases over time, until it eventually is no longer relevant. This can explain shifts in your party's position to the electorate and your visibility. |
| Random quote: "The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it." - Edward Dowling |