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Bill: Religious qualifications
Details
Submitted by[?]: Grand Nationalist Fraction
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 3783
Description[?]:
| Section 1: Religions allowed in Lodamun should have the ability to select their own Ministers, but the State should have the possibility to veto. Upon passage of this bill, the Presidium can veto the nomination of any Minister of any religion in Lodamun. Section 2: There will be a committee that is responsible to draft the guidelines concerning religions in Lodamun. These guidelines will be agreed upon in the Conclave and the Presidium. The Religious Affairs Committee will be composed by 15 members. The seats will be appointed following calculations like the ones used on the other committees. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The state's intervention in the appointment of ministers of religion.
Old value:: The state has the right to veto the appointment of any ministers of religion.
Current: The state does not intervene in the appointment of ministers of any religion whatsoever.
Proposed: The state nominates ministers of religion, but the appointment is left up to the religious communities themselves.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:01:58, January 03, 2015 CET | From | Movement for Percyism | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I would rather see that a committee would be established, for the oversight of religious doctrine, draft of the guidelines and the oversight of ministries, consisting of The Ministry Education and Culture with the Ministrry of Interior. Hannes Percy Faction Leader and Conclav member NAP-EL |
| Date | 17:05:34, January 03, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, the Ministry of Education and Culture would be pleased to be part of a new committee. Guga Heirman Minister of Education and Culture |
| Date | 18:14:11, January 03, 2015 CET | From |  Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, I will be happy to take on the role of studying Lodamun's demographics to come up with the composition of a "Committee on Religious Affairs" in addition to our existing committees. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 20:29:04, January 03, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, if Mr. Fertig wants to do this, we'll have the proposal changed. Guga Heirman Minister of Education and Culture |
| Date | 00:32:20, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, How many members should the committee have? -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 05:06:10, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Movement for Percyism | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Because this is a very delicate subject, i propose a committee of maximum 15 people. Larger committees will only be counter productive and stall any progress. Donald Miller President Lodamun |
| Date | 06:12:16, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, A large committee won't necessarily stall progress. We have large committees already which have already been successfully used. While not all members of a committee will speak, they all vote. If the "Religious Affairs Committee" has only 15 members, the seat distribution would be: Golavia - 4 Andalay - 3 Rapula - 2 Kregon - 4 Norstavan - 2 -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 09:33:51, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, this seems fair, but we wonder if this will be sufficiant. For instance, there are only 2 members in Norstavan. This means LNC gets one seat for sure, but what happens with the second one? Does LNC get it? Or LIP? We might go a little bit bigger on this. Joacim Devolder MP for LNC Governor of the Province of Norstavan |
| Date | 13:47:40, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Movement for Percyism | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, The Committee could be like this; Total: 15 members - 1 member per party (current 8 seats) - 7 appointees Majority appoints: 4 Minority appoints: 3 The numbers when parties come and go. Donald Miller, President of Lodamun |
| Date | 13:52:43, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, who will decide who is appointed? There could be conflict. Like now, 7 members are to be appointed, but there are 8 parties. I guess every party would like a party member appointed. Joris Vonkers LNC chairman |
| Date | 13:57:06, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Movement for Percyism | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker The Appointees shall be notable citizens of this country appointed by the Head of Government and Head of the Opposition. Donald Miller President of Lodamun |
| Date | 14:01:35, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, if this is possible, we will agree. Joris Vonkers LNC chairman |
| Date | 15:32:22, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Joacim Devolder is correct in saying that the number should probably be bigger than 15, but he is making it more complicated than it needs to be when he is asking who would get the 2 seats from Norstavan. In the Foreign Policy Committee, Norstavan gets only 7 seats. We have 8 parties. There is a way to calculate which parties get seats. If we had the Religious Affairs Committee now, with the calculation I suggest, it would be simple: Golavia - DLP - 1, ECDP - 1, LIP - 1, RPF - 1 Andalay - DLP - 1, ECDP - 1, NAP-EL - 1 Kregon - DLP - 1, LIP - 1, JDP - 2 Norstavan - LIP - 1, LNC - 1 Rapula - LNC - 1, RPF - 1 Total: DLP - 3, LNC - 2, LIP - 3, ECDP - 2, JDP - 2, NAP-EL - 1, RPF - 2 I suggest a bigger number than 15 if we will base the committee on election results. I am opposed to an appointed committee, especially one that the Opposition Leader gets to appoint 3 persons. What if the Opposition is divided and the largest Opposition party doesn't like the other parties? Also, the committee's terms will be based on the executive terms and not the legislative terms like other committees. If the committee's size was 100, the seats per province would be: Golavia - 27 Andalay - 18 Kregon - 28 Norstavan - 12 Rapula - 15 Parties: DLP - 22, LNC - 13, LIP - 18, ECDP - 13, JDP - 12, NAP-EL - 10, RPF - 7, GNRG - 5 We suggest having a committee bigger than 15. We are not suggesting 100, but it is just to show the difference between using such a small number and using a bigger one. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 15:40:22, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, my first thoughts were exactly what Mr. Fertig just exposed. 15 might be a too small number. Joacim Devolder Governor of the Province of Norstavan |
| Date | 16:01:33, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, While I agree that 15 may be too small, calculations are still possible with that number. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 17:28:56, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Movement for Percyism | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker I have to disagree with the proposal of the GNRG. We would like to involve notable citizens of this country in the committee. Donald Miller President of Lodamun |
| Date | 17:39:16, January 04, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, All our existing committees involve notable citizens, and my proposal doesn't say anything about exclusion of notable citizens. -- Andre Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG, Minister of Trade & Industry, Vice President of Lodamun |
| Date | 12:47:57, January 05, 2015 CET | From | Ecumenical Constitutional Democrat Party | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | We believe that a right to veto should exist only in majority Nationalist areas. |
| Date | 12:48:14, January 05, 2015 CET | From | Ecumenical Constitutional Democrat Party | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | The current law is sufficient. |
| Date | 13:53:55, January 05, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the Religious qualifications |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, the State does not wish to intervene in the appointment of Ministers, but should have a veto right. One never knows a religious group selects a potential dangerous person as a Minister. It might be better to prevent that. Guga Heirman Minister of Education and Culture |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 226 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 198 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 175 |
| Random fact: Parties have the ability to endorse another party's candidate for the Head of State election (if there is one). This adds a strategic element to the elections. |
| Random quote: "We’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies." - Sarah Palin |