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Bill: Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808
Details
Submitted by[?]: Federal Heritage Party of Hutori
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 3819
Description[?]:
| The Federalist Party calls this hearing to address the issue of the Hutori Communist Union's attempt to violate the Hutori Political Pact of Righteousness and Good Faith. In accordance with the regulation outlined in said pact both parties will be given the opportunity to state their cases before a vote is called of the signatories of the Pact. Prosecution: The bill known as Agenda (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=430073) violates the Hutori Political Pact of Righteousness and Good Faith. Specifically Article 24 of the bill known as Agenda violates Article B Sections 2 and 3 of the Pact. The outlawing of religious activities within Hutori allows and even encourages the state to discriminate against those who have religious beliefs. As such the attempt to outlaw religion is a direct violation of the Pact. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 07:33:15, March 02, 2015 CET | From | Hutori Communist Union | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | We disagree totally and the accusations made by the FP looks more like a political motivated move in order to harm our reputation. Indeed, the HCU does want to ban religious institutions like clerical organizations. In no way my party would ban personel believes: political nor religious ones. As such the HCU did not violate the HPPR. George Derron Party Chairman |
| Date | 08:32:58, March 02, 2015 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | The problem is that by doing that you are inhibiting those individuals from believing in and practicing their religion. For instance to be a follower of the Terran Patriarchal Church you must take part in certain rituals so by denying the TPC to exist within Hutori you are also denying individual freedoms. Yeudism (Particracy's equivalent of Judaism) also has similar rituals are you going to discriminate against them just because they require the support structure of an organization to practice their religion? And that is why an attempt to ban all religious activities or organizations is a violation of the HPPR. As far as the accusation that this is a politically motivated move that simply isn't the case we believe that religious freedom should be protected in Hutori and we see any attempt to outlaw it in violation of the HPPR. In fact we believe that if your party were to format legislation so that there would be only one or two proposals per bill we might accomplish a great deal. |
| Date | 08:33:42, March 02, 2015 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | OOC: After your rebuttal I will call a vote. |
| Date | 09:40:57, March 02, 2015 CET | From | Hutori Communist Union | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | We did not state that the HCU will abolish churches. We do ban religious organizations as political institutions. This means that practicing any religious believe will be allowed under a HCU lead Government. |
| Date | 17:39:34, March 02, 2015 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | To determine whether the HCU has violated the HPPR a vote of signing members of the pact will now be called. |
| Date | 07:08:20, March 05, 2015 CET | From | Conservative People's Party | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | The People's Centrist Alliance hereby votes that the HCU has violated the HPPR with their "Agenda" bill. While the proposed law states that "Any form of religion is banned," there is clearly some disagreement as to what that actually entails. As it stands, we are forced to interpret the entire violation based on a single sentence, and we have taken "any form of religion" to mean the wearing of religious articles, participation in holidays or rituals and the formation of religious groups. "Banning" also has the implication that violating the law is a crime, and since the penalty is undefined in the bill, this could easily mean incarceration based on religion. OOC: While I supported the violation, I really think this is a case of having a new system (HPPR violations) along with a bill that is very undefined. Since there is only so much that can be done, I would recommend that the HCU issues multiple, more specific bills that are focused, preferably with some bit of IC explanation in them to prevent misunderstandings like this in the future. Example: Bill Name: Regulating Religion in Hutori Description: As religious faith has shown itself to be an ineffective and divisive system, we believe it is in the best interest of Hutori to ban religious organizations from ____X_____. This will better protect the nation by _____Y_____ while still allowing people express individual beliefs without punishment or imprisonment. Articles[Religion related in this case, perhaps something about public assembly or curfew could apply with the right description. Ideally anywhere from 1-6 articles, though it could be every law with a good enough justification.] |
| Date | 20:57:31, March 05, 2015 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | The Federalist Party also votes that the HCU has violated the HPPR as specificity is required when drafting law as to avoid confusion and the misappropriation of justice. Specificity that the bill "agenda" lacks and which could have lead to dangerous transgressions against innocent people. |
| Date | 11:12:52, March 06, 2015 CET | From | Hutori Communist Union | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | Due to this (not supprising) outcome of this political motivated process, the HCU has (with much regret) decided to withdraw itself from the HPPR. Neglecting our arguments we can not take this so called "hearing" seriously anymore. George Derron Party Chairman |
| Date | 18:25:06, March 21, 2015 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Violation Hearing- Hutori Communist Union 3808 |
| Message | This bill is being moved to a vote so that it can be archived. Voting yes or no has no bearing whatsoever. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 147 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 388 |
| Random fact: Before creating a party organisation, check to see whether there are any existing organisations which cover the same agenda. |
| Random quote: "The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it." - Edward Dowling |