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Bill: NWL 007a - Renaming our cities
Details
Submitted by[?]: Grand Nationalist Fraction
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 3957
Description[?]:
| Conferring to http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=456641 we would like to alter some other names. 40 years ago, some cities lost the name they had held for centuries. We want to restore these. On passage of this bill the Province of Kregon known as Shadowlands will be renamed Kregon. Gaston Lefebvre deputy chairman of NWL |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 09:54:17, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Liberal Progressive Alliance | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | M. Speaker, The LPA will not support this proposal. Susan Gibbs LPA Leader |
| Date | 10:32:09, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Court of Shades | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr Speaker, We must protest this, the Shadowlands and the City of Shades are holy land to Shadowists, and have been for centuries. The majority of citizens in this region are Shadowists, and recognition of this is vital to the region. It provides tourism benefits, as well as being a beacon of a strength to all who live there. We urge all parties to oppose this, and all who do will be considered friends to us Shadowists. Jane Black Acting Cos Leader |
| Date | 11:38:35, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Traditional Alliance | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr Speaker, We consider that name changes should only occur when there is widespread consensus. Given the concerns of the CoS thar is clearly not the case here. I would ask that the NWL recognise that this bill does not have the consensus support required for a change of this significance and withdraw it. If it comes to a vote we will vote against. Andrew d'Arcy TA Leader |
| Date | 14:56:03, December 21, 2015 CET | From |  Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We are also disappointed in the Traditional Alliance's haste to dismiss the bill, after only 2 parties had given their opinion. In this parliament, we are to have discussions to build consensus. We also question why the Traditional Alliance would side with the Court of Shades on this. Isn't the Traditional Alliance about traditional values? The traditional name for the large Southern province in Lodamun is "Kregon" and it was changed to the "Shadowlands" less than 50 years ago. Jane Black, from the CoS, has attempted to deceive this parliament with a blatant lie. "The Shadowlands" and the "City of Shades" did not exist until 3912, which is less than 50 years ago. To say that these were Shadowist holy lands "for centuries" is simply a ridiculous claim. -- Joshua Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG |
| Date | 19:16:54, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | As President of Lodamun, and sense the Prime Minister of my party is the Governor of the Shadowlands, I'd say we have some amount of authorit on the matter. And as far as the Shadowlands goes, we believe it should be the people that decides the name of their respective citys. We agreed with the first proposal because that was a bad name for a city. And if that means the city of shades, and the Shadowlands names remains the same then so be it, as long as it is the people's wish that is the outcome. Stephen Lodamun President of Lodamun |
| Date | 20:02:58, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Court of Shades | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr Speaker, There is absolutely no deception. The Shadowists were living in the mountains of the Shadowlands for centuries, while the Nationalist Regime had banned them from openly practicing their religion. This is how Shadowism was formed. Just because the state had only relatively recently decided to recognize this fact, does not change the fact that it has been considered holy land by Shadowists for centuries. Maybe the GNRG should do a bit of research before embarrassing themselves again? Jane Black CoS Acting Leader |
| Date | 21:55:46, December 21, 2015 CET | From | Court of Shades | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr Speaker, I must express my gratitude to the President, Mr D'Archy and Ms Susan for their support on this matter. This is an issue that strikes the heart of my party, and your support means so much to my party, and the wider Shadowist movement. Thank you so much. Jane Black CoS Acting Leader |
| Date | 14:11:34, December 22, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Even before the GNRG existed, Shadowists were unheard of. Religions that were suppressed by the Great Democratic Republic were at least heard of. There is no record of Shadowist existence before the mid-3800s. The province has always been called "Kregon" until less than 50 years ago. If Shadowists existed before 110 years ago, is Jane Black saying that the province was sacred before it was renamed to the Shadowlands? If that is the case, then we do not see how it would be less sacred with a rename. The fact is that the name was changed less than 50 years ago. It is impossible that the name is what makes it sacred, if it has been sacred for "centuries" as Jane Black claims. We are disappointed with 2 things: 1) The fact that the parliament is falling for the CoS' deception. 2) The fact that the parliament is okay with over 38% of the country being some tributary land for a specific party in Lodamun. -- Joshua Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG |
| Date | 14:31:40, December 22, 2015 CET | From | Liberal Progressive Alliance | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | M. Speaker, I would be open to renaming the province Kregon. But I think the city names should remain as they are. Perhaps keeping the City of Shades, but returning the Shadowlands to Kregon would be a good compromise. Terry Hawthorne Prime Minister |
| Date | 14:57:13, December 23, 2015 CET | From | Great National Republican Guard | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, Terry Hawthorne raises a good point. Perhaps this bill could be split up into 3 separate bills, and we vote on them individually. And again, we want to reach out the Traditional Alliance. To side with the CoS and their divisive politics would be unwise. Notice how the Acting CoS Leader, Jane Black, referred to the use of a "historic name" in a dismissive way during the last discussion on a name change: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=456641 | Also notice how the CoS was the only party to vote against that name change. Next, I want to address this issue of the CoS and the PLUP talking about "the people" being the ones who decide when a city's name should be changed. Average people don't just get up and change city names. They elect us as their representatives, and trust us to make such major decisions on their behalf. How do we gauge whether the people want the change or not, anyway? How have Jane Black and Stephen Lodamun assumed that the people don't want this change? Let us also remember that it was the parliament, not the people, who changed the province's name from "Kregon" to "Shadowlands" some 50 years ago. Remember that it was the parliament, not the people, who renamed "Fertig" and "Fort Karav" to "Butterman" and "City of Shades" in the first place. Let us have constructive discussion on the legitimacy of the current names, and let us stop using "the people" whenever we can't find a good point to make. -- Joshua Fertig, Chairman of the GNRG |
| Date | 23:23:50, December 23, 2015 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | We haven't assumed anything, this should be something that is locally done, like the mayors of each city provide an election of possible new names for the city's they are in themselves. But sense this bill is obviously making it a parliamentary issue. Not one sentence in the presidents earlier statement said he was against changing of the names. In fact if you looked at the first bill, he voted FOR the change. If it were primarally nationalist that controlled those citys, and had nationalist inspired names, we wouldn't have a problem with it either. We feel the GNRG, rather or not on purpose, is trying to make this a nationalist vs shadowist religious issue. We believe that all religions are equal and if that is what this becoming, we will take no part of it. Robert Lodamun PLUP Prime Minister Governor of the Shadowlands |
| Date | 23:31:08, December 23, 2015 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | (OOC: i know game mechanics don't allow for it to be done locally, but that is his argument.) |
| Date | 23:59:38, December 23, 2015 CET | From | Pro Lodamunese Unitarian Party | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | We are ok with the compromise stated Stephen Lodamun President of Lodamun |
| Date | 07:13:10, December 24, 2015 CET | From | Grand Nationalist Fraction | To | Debating the NWL 007a - Renaming our cities |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, the bill has been changed. There is only one name changing proposition, being the change to Province of Kregon. Louisa Labete Minister of Education and Culture |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 228 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 179 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 192 |
| Random fact: You can inactivate yourself on your User Page. You will then lose all your seats but your party account won't be deleted, and your party's Visibility ratings will not diminish. Reactivation can be requested in the "Reactivation Requests" thread in the Game Moderation section of the Particracy Forum. |
| Random quote: "For among other evils caused by being disarmed, it renders you contemptible; which is one of those disgraceful things which a prince must guard against." - Niccolo Machiavelli |