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Bill: Constitutional Convention of 4040
Details
Submitted by[?]: Raaper iny Mumenhes
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 4097
Description[?]:
| uMongameli Ihejirika has called a convention to gather both parties of Ibutho to discuss a new cultural protocol to evolve the nation into a new age. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:30:16, June 07, 2016 CET | From |  Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: Should I wait for Pres. Ihejirika to make introductory remarks first? |
| Date | 16:45:59, June 07, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | No. Go ahead if you want. |
| Date | 17:37:35, June 07, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Hermelinda Shelby, Federationist Party Chairwoman: "Mr. President, members of oMkhandlu, and ladies and gentlemen, I would first like to thank you Mr. President for the honor of inviting me and other members of the Federationist Party to this important crossroads in our nation's history. This is an example of the steady hand and strength with which you've lead our country during your short time as president. It's something I think we've all observed. And I for one look forward to you leading us for many years to come as we work together to build a new nation that will be the pride of our people and the envy of the world. Mr. President, our legislative floor manager, Theomavris Sklavos, has made you aware of Federationist objectives regarding our new country. Many Federationists have been citizens of Ibutho all their lives, and some of us are recent immigrants, 'fresh off the boat' as the kids say affectionately (I think). But what has brought us together as Federationists is that we love this country. We love Ibutho. And more than anything it angered us and saddened us to see the true vandalism done to our beautiful country by invaders and their sympathizers. We've seen it over past decades, but we've seen these crimes against our people for centuries in fact. And it has come to a point where we believe the damage done to our country has been so barbarous that picking up the debris would be like digging up a loved one's grave. Truly. And disturb this resting place we should not. Let our country and our people rest in peace. So where to from here? We as Federationists advocate a new beginning for our people. Many lives have been lost. Our population is dwindled. And many newcomers call our country home now. They come from all over the world. Most of them are Esinsundu from our trusted old Ibutho allies in Cobura and Talmoria, and from further afield in Rutania like me, and Beyteinu, and Cildania, and across Artania from places like Luthori. And a few have been with us from the beginning, patriatioc and faithtul citizens by our sides, like the indigenous people of this land, the nomads of the ancient Ikradonian Empire. The historians and anthropologists tell us that this great diversity, this ability of men and women to come together for a common cause and to share in a great idea, that this is the stuff civilization is made of. And with all the bleakness and horror of Terra in the 5th mellinium, Federationists believe that we diverse people together with this great idea of ours, that we can work together to bring peace, and prosperity, and security to the world. So what do we want for this new country, Mr. President? What do we need to bring this great idea to life? We need a government, in form and substance, both in word and deed, that is as great and visionary and enduring as the people it represents. We need an economy that is as productive and innovative as the needs and wants of our diverse people. And we need a military as ready and as lethal as the reality of the world demands. Federationists believes that only a federal form of government, representative and democratic, is nimble enough to do the job. A federal government will disperse power widely across our new country and new communities, encouraging every man, woman, and child to follow their ambitions, seize their dreams, and be their own leaders and solve their own problems. A federal form of government will encourage competition at home and encourage winning abroad, with every province and every company and every school and every boardroom and every little league team competing to attract the best and brightest and challenging every one of our people to always be their best and always keep learning, keep evolving, keep improving. And a federal form of government, stood up by the vote of the people, would allow every man, woman, and child to act as leaders and public servants in running and growing and securing our country. Thank you again Mr. President for your gracious invite and I know we'll get into the details as we go along. OOC: uuuuh sorry, I didn't realize this was supposed to be OOC until after I wrote it. Hahahha feel free to ignore it. |
| Date | 17:52:46, June 07, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC FYI: I invited both Akhenaten (Cobura ruling party) and Polites (Global RP Team member) to follow along here so they can help give us any useful input about how the game world will be affected by the new cultural protocal. |
| Date | 04:45:48, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: I feel that we could do a constitutional monarchy that is more like a republic. The Pharaoh/King would be more like a figurehead and/or a religious figure wielding little (if any) power. |
| Date | 07:57:14, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: What powers do you want the king to have? |
| Date | 16:04:39, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: Probably just emergency powers in case things go south with the government. Also, some of the power over the church. |
| Date | 16:43:21, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: Well even though the Federationists don't want a king, they think having a pretend king (just costumes, waving, and charity) would be worse than having a real king. They can stomach giving the head of state some important (but limited) powers as long as the head of state is elected. So they support Sklavos's plan to elect the monarch's wife or husband who would be head of state and could have powers like: 1. Nominating a cabinet (meaning only the head of state can make a cabinet bill, so it would be like a real parliamentary system) 2. Setting the law of succession, meaning they get to determine who their spouse's heir is 3. Giving titles of nobility (I think we should do the elected spouse thing for heads of provinces too (nomarchs, dukes, or whatever the queen/head of state decides to call them) so that way party leaders and cabinet members could be given noble titles based on the provinces they win in elections and based on which ministries they control; it could also serve as a feeder system/testing ground for future heads of state to show their talents before running for election as royal consort) 4. Signing bills into law (if a bill is passed the queen/spouse doesn't like, she can can refuse to sign it meaning it never gets implemented IC even though it was passed OOC) 5. Government communications (government press statements could be released in her name or maybe even in her voice; laws and treaties and other official business too, meaning parties would always have to write as if they are representing the head of state) etc you get the idea. I'm trying to think of things that will affect how parties have to play the game because I think it will help build both an IC culture for the country and an OOC culture for the players. I think that's one reason Luthori has been able to keep it's monarchy so long and also stay very active and popular with players -- the monarchy actually affects how the parties in Luthori play the game, so players aren't so quick to get rid of it. At least if we had a powerless hereditary king who married an elected queen with real powers, anti-monarchist parties like the Federationists would see they don't have to get rid of the monarchy because anyone can become monarch. |
| Date | 17:40:10, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | OOC: That's a pretty good idea. It's actually sorta how the Kingdom of Kush would do it. Is it a yes or a no to the Monarch plan? If yes, when the powerless monarch dies the nobles get together to elect a new one from the royal family like they did in Kush? Also, I have this idea, how about after the cultural protocol gets passed when we create it, a new calendar system that matches our culture goes into place with the current calendar system? |
| Date | 18:12:47, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "Also, I have this idea, how about after the cultural protocol gets passed when we create it, a new calendar system that matches our culture goes into place with the current calendar system?" That sounds really cool, I like it. Ooooooh maybe it can be like the dating systems they used on the stelae -- like "In the 10th year of the Majesty of King XYZ," where they dated everything based on the king's coronation. "That's a pretty good idea. It's actually sorta how the Kingdom of Kush would do it. Is it a yes or a no to the Monarch plan? If yes, when the powerless monarch dies the nobles get together to elect a new one from the royal family like they did in Kush?" Sure jot me down as a yes. I don't really care how the king is chosen since he'll be powerless and just there for heredity. |
| Date | 18:54:56, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "That sounds really cool, I like it. Ooooooh maybe it can be like the dating systems they used on the stelae -- like "In the 10th year of the Majesty of King XYZ," where they dated everything based on the king's coronation." Yeah that would be cool. Every time a new King is crowned call it a different era, like what they do in Japan for example. "Sure jot me down as a yes. I don't really care how the king is chosen since he'll be powerless and just there for heredity." Is there anything else about the government you feel we should talk about? |
| Date | 19:38:29, June 08, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Nope. What's next on the agenda? |
| Date | 05:09:04, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | There are 3 things I think we should talk about: 1. Is the race still going to be called Esinsundu? 2. I think we should talk about religion. 3. Do you know any translation resources for our language? |
| Date | 09:40:12, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 1. I want them to be a melting pot like African Americans and have their origins in all the African parts of Terra (Talmoria, Cobura, Ibutho, etc). Esinsundu just means African, like Artanian for European, Majatran for Arab, and Gao-Showan for Asian. So that wouldn't change. I do want the country to have a tiny minority of Ikradonians as nomads though. 2. I'm pretty open on religion. Maybe the elected queen could have the title 'Divine Adoratrice of something.' That's all I got. 3. Found a few the other day when we were PMing . . . http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup_free.pl http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/publications/demotic-dictionary-oriental-institute-university-chicago https://archive.org/details/egyptianhierogly01budguoft |
| Date | 09:43:40, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Oh and we have to find a third party to move here to pass the CP. You need three players to pass it and we all have to be here a month. You know anyone we should ask? |
| Date | 13:30:31, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Another good hieroglyphics site: http://www.greatscott.com/hiero/hiero_alpha.html |
| Date | 13:44:28, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Oooh found a good one: http://www.mobilefish.com/services/hieroglyphs/hieroglyphs.php |
| Date | 14:00:03, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | This one would let us type in Hieroglyphics with ASCII art, probably too large to be useful though (scroll down about a 3rd of the way in the Choose Font window for hieroglyphs): http://www.kammerl.de/ascii/AsciiSignature.php |
| Date | 14:03:45, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Very cool: http://discoveringegypt.com/egyptian-hieroglyphic-writing/hieroglyphic-typewriter/ |
| Date | 15:45:19, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I have tons of good ideas about the religion! Wanna hear them now? Also here's a English to Medu Neter translator that I love to use: http://medu.ipetisut.com/ |
| Date | 15:59:57, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "I have tons of good ideas about the religion! Wanna hear them now?" Yes And your translator is so much better than the ones I found hahah. |
| Date | 16:21:14, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I borrowed some concepts and expanded some from the IESS. I say we be like the people of Kush and follow the Kemetic religion, except, it's not a polytheism. We change it to a monotheism with Ra (or some other one I just personally think it should be Ra) as the Supreme diety. (This next part is where I borrow and expand from the IESS.) The Others will still be there, just not as dieties. They would be an Angelic being called Gaxecunzto (Plural: Gaxeimewtru) meaning Holy Being. The world (both seen and unseen) could be seen as the Mutima Hawu (The Cosmic Body). Just tell me if you want me to explain the Mutima Hawu. "And your translator is so much better than the ones I found hahah." Thanks. |
| Date | 16:24:09, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | So the Mutima Hawu is like a pantheist thing? Like God is in everything? |
| Date | 16:26:19, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | So the Mutima Hawu is like a pantheist thing? Like God is in everything? |
| Date | 16:30:32, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | The more I read it the more kind of amazing it sounds. The structure of it seems very very African. |
| Date | 16:39:16, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I thought of it the way the world is organized. Like how in the IESS there was the left and right hand of God. Allow me to explain the Mutima Hawu. Ra would be the head. The Male Gaxeimewtru would be on the Right Shoulder of Ra and the female Gaxeimewtru would be on the Left Shoulder of Ra. Honorable men of the Seen World would be in the Right Hand of Ra and the honorable women of the Seen world would be in the Left Hand of Ra. The rest of the people who make it to Artu (Heaven) would be in the torso region. The waist would be Terra. Let me take a moment to clear something up. Above the waist would be Artu and below the waist would be Exieti iny Neqemto (Fire of Suffering aka Hell). Let's continue. The knee area (We'll come up with a name for this area because I think it'd be weird to call it the Knee of Ra or Apophis) would be where the truly vile people of the Seen World would go. The Ankle region (again will make a different name later) would be where the HAtyw (Demons) {The HAtyw are the Egyptian Dieties like Set (Seth)} are. The feet would be the place where Apophis who would be the Devil in this religion would be. The rest of the people who got sent to Hell would be symbolized as being inbetween the waist and the knee. Did all that make sense? |
| Date | 16:54:46, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | It made perfect sense and I got chills while reading it. It will tie in perfectly with the country's superpower/expansionist ideology: the king or prime minister raining down the "Fire of Suffering" on enemies and the vile men of knew of Ra being banished/struck/bound by the king's majesty . . . this is cool as hell. I also think showing the IESS influences is really cool because it'll show continuity and also continue the close relationship with Cobura that has developed. |
| Date | 16:55:30, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | *Vile men of the knee of Ra, typo |
| Date | 17:04:01, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Yeah but I don't know what to call this religion. And is this the religion that we are going for because I have been thinking about this for days. |
| Date | 17:13:46, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Of course we're going to use it. It's too well-developed to throw away. I hope we get a party here who's a really good artist because it would be so cool to see a picture of people walking through different levels of the God's body like a building. |
| Date | 17:18:34, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | That would be cool. I could make a diagram to sort of explain it all. What should we talk about next for the protocol? I sadly don't know anyone who would stay active after the protocol passes. |
| Date | 17:31:59, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Oh my God this is gonna be so cool, the whole architecture of the country can be based on the body of this God. If you're cool with the ethnicity outline I wrote then I guess that's it for the main part of the CP. I guess all we have to do is the history/background/intro and then draft it. |
| Date | 17:38:03, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Would the intro be the same as Ibutho or would we change it? Also, would the name stay as Ibutho or would we change it? And can you help me think of a name for the religion? |
| Date | 17:50:20, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | If you can stick around for10 mins til I can get to a pc I'll respond. |
| Date | 17:52:27, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I'm in a library, but I'll be back on later. |
| Date | 18:05:43, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 3. Name of Religion: Ummm I'll have to think about it but I have two thoughts: we should consider whether and how the name should be related "Arkhe," the name of Cobura's religion since we're claiming our country got religious influence from there (I think?); and second you want another name for the God too right? Because Ra is such a famous God I don't think the game mods will allow us to use that name. 2. No the name should be changed cause otherwise the rebranding/breaking into a superpower won't work, everyone will still associate the country with Ibutho. I have a strong urge to name the country after the God . . . like Temple of the Body of Ra' or something. 1. No we would change it. I do want to tie it into the history of Ibutho (and Ikradon too) like how you did with the religion. |
| Date | 18:22:19, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Would it work within the religion's setup if a secondary title for the Gaxeimewtru was "The Issue of God" or "The Issue of Ra"? (issue as in children/semen). I'm envisioning the Gaxeimewtru being the children of Ra, the royals being the grandchildren of Ra, and the people being the great grandchildren of Ra. I don't know why that's attractive to me but it is for some reason. Just a thought that occurred to me. |
| Date | 18:48:11, June 09, 2016 CET | From |  Royal People's Party | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Couple of points regarding Arkhē: The etymology: Arkhē means something close to "foundation" in Coptic, as in, proper practice of the religion is the foundation of the society and the continued existence of the world. It was something of a spin off of the concept of Maat (that specific concept is actually called Taphmei in Arkhe, however.) The Egyptians, so far as I know, didn't actually have a name for their religion because it was so woven into their society and everyday life (I may be wrong). So there's no reason why the name of this religion would have to be related to the Arkhe term, I don't think. It sort of seems that this going to be something of a monotheistic/henothestic religion, so if you need an origin story, some sort of...ahem...Akhenaten-like member of the Coburan-Ibutho royal line coming over and establishing the religion by combining the monotheism of the IESS and modified deities from Arkhē could make sense. Or, the religion could have naturally evolved by the syncretism of the two religions, seeing as Ibutho had an Arkheist (Arkhean? I never actually settled this) as monarch for a period of time. It was never established that Kharakhte tried to actively spread the religion to Ibutho, but these things can be retconned, especially seeing how the CPs for Ibutho are now open. Just throwing ideas around. |
| Date | 21:23:59, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I thought of a name for Ra: Tunkeh-Wa (Supreme One) Let me know what you think. Would we be able to make some of their names the Medu Neter form of their names? ex. Osiris --> Ausar I think we should do this religion similar yet independent to Cobura. |
| Date | 21:46:52, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I thought of a new name for the nation: Gaxe-Remetch (Holy Nation) I don't think we should call humans the Grandchildren and Great-Grandchildren because that would mean the Gaxeimewtru created them, not Ra. |
| Date | 22:03:57, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "I thought of a name for Ra: Tunkeh-Wa (Supreme One) Let me know what you think." That or Mnhs (Consciousness) as in "The Consciousness of the Cosmic Body," or call him creator of the etc, or soul of the etc, or something like that. "Would we be able to make some of their names the Medu Neter form of their names? ex. Osiris --> Ausar" Umm . . . maybe the ones that are unfamiliar. But Ancient Egypt is so well known someone is bound to make the connection eventually and may involve the game mods. I wish we could though. I think we do need to look to Cobura's names for them because Akhenaten has already created particracy equivilants for several of them. "I think we should do this religion similar yet independent to Cobura." Yea I agree with independent, but I do want it to remain obvious that it grew out of/is inspired by/is a version of Cobura's Arkhe. In general, I want to avoid creating a story/country that pops out of a thin air, including the religion. I want to grow organically out of the current particracy world and I want its back story to be the collaborative story created by particracy players over the past years. I don't want people to think this is Ancient Kush. I'd like it to be clear that this is reminiscent of Kush and Kemet because the country partly grew out of Coburan influence. |
| Date | 22:11:16, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "I thought of a new name for the nation: Gaxe-Remetch (Holy Nation)" Another possiblity is Hwu or just Hw (as in Body of the [God's name]). The benefit of an H-W name is that it would fit alphabetically within the names of the other countries on the Nations of the World list: http://classic.particracy.net/viewnations.php |
| Date | 22:11:56, June 09, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | "I don't think we should call humans the Grandchildren and Great-Grandchildren because that would mean the Gaxeimewtru created them, not Ra." Yea you're right, that makes sense. |
| Date | 00:29:37, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | After thinking about it, he's my suggestion for the name of the religion: Arkhe Mumenhes, meaning The Foundation of Consciousness or The Foundation of God. I kind of love it. It's a compromise between our religion preferences (different from Cobura but contiguous with it) and it could also be the name for Cobura in the new country, as in "Cobura is the foundation of God or the foundation of consciousness because that's where the religion came from." Do you love it? Even a little? |
| Date | 00:30:11, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | *here's my suggestion for . . . |
| Date | 00:42:46, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Okay and here's my preference for the name of the nation: Hw Mnhs/Hawu Mumenhes meaning "The Body of the Consciousness (of God)" or just "The Body of God" if we go with Mumenhes as the God's name. The long form could be "The Democratic Monarchy of Hawu Mumenhes." |
| Date | 00:51:55, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | That sounds cool. But I just want to clarify that the Body Concept isn't the main thing of the religion. I like Hawu Mumenhes. It can function as both the name for all the religion's followers and the nation. |
| Date | 01:32:53, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Okay perfect. Should we start drafting the CP now or are there other things we need to address before we start? |
| Date | 02:25:37, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Nothing else I can think of. I just have two questions. 1.Are you going to write the CP? 2. When this new nation is established, am I able to make my party sorta like the official church or no? |
| Date | 02:39:03, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 1. If you want me to. Or we could divide it up based the parts we showed most interest in: I could do Demographics, you could do Religion, we could do language and the introduction/background together. Or you could write the whole thing if you want. I'm fine either way. We'll negotiate edits to the final draft before passing it anyhow (and I'm sure whoever the third party is will have their opinions and input too so that will be more edits). 2. That would be cool. I was looking forward to you being the monarchy too. |
| Date | 03:05:41, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 1. We can do the splitting thing. 2. YES!! 3. We don't know how long it'll take to get a third party. |
| Date | 13:49:20, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Okay here's a draft of the demographics section with a snippet from the introduction to give context: ------------ INTRO 'The citizens of Hawu Mumenhes are Ancient Egyptian-speaking African Americans. They trace their heritage to all corners of the globe and are a true melting pot. They primarily descend from Talmorians, Coburans, and Ibutho.' . . . DEMOGRAPHICS The citizens of Hawu Mumenhes are known as the Hawu. Hawu Mumenhes is an immigrant nation, so the Hawu take great pride in their countries of origin and will often prefix their home countries' names to their Hawu nationality. The table below lists Hawu by the relative portions of citizens from each major country or polity of origin. Hawu (Total Population): ca. 97 million ........Ibutho-Hawu (Zulu):............................................................................................................................26% ........Coburan-Hawu (Ethiopian, Sudanese, and Egyptian) :................................................................21% ........Talmorian-Hawu (Malian, Nigerian, Ghanaian, and Senegalese)..:............................................10% ........Ibutho-Luthori-Hawu (African British):...............................................................................................9% ........Watembo-Hawu (Tanzanian, Kenyan, Congolese (DRC), and Ugandan):............................9% ........Esinsundu-Rutanian-Hawu (African American and Zulu American/South African-American):..8% ........Ikpi-Hawu (Aboriginal Australian):....................................................................................................6% ........Kuragao-Hawu (Pan African):...........................................................................................................5% ........Beta Yishalem-Hawu (Ethiopian Jews):...........................................................................................3% Aborigines, Naturalized Citizens, and Foreign Nationals (Total Population): ca. 3 million ........Nomadic Ikradonians (Greek nomads):.0.81% ........Canrailesse (French):..............................0.68% ........Mashacara (Pan Native American):.......0.54% ........Luthori (British):........................................0.45% ........Gao-Showan (Pan East Asian)..............0.24% ........Majatran (Arabs):.....................................0.15% ........Other:.........................................................0.13% All groups with the suffix "-Hawu" are Esinsundu (African/Black). Names may be in Mdw Ntr or based proportionately on the percentages above. Due to Hawu Mumenhes's high ethnic diversity and melting pot nature, "cross-cultural" names made up of reasonable combinations of any of Hawu Mumenhes's various cultural influences are also appropriate. Examples: Martin Luther Nkosi, Tutankhmumenhes Keita, Sundiata Dubois, Oprah Nyerere, Denzel Selassie, Nefertiti Mandela, Beyonce Akhenaten. (??? Names may be written in Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics, Transliterated Mdw Ntr (ex.: Trnsltrtd Mdw NTr), or a script from the character's country of origin.???) |
| Date | 13:55:57, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Likes, dislikes, changes? I especially need input on that last sentence. |
| Date | 14:56:14, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I guess the first sentence of the last paragraph should say instead, "Names may be ANCIENT EGYPTIAN, ANCIENT KUSHITE, or . . .". I'm starting to think you should do the language section if you're up for it. I don't mind doing it, but I'm starting to think you'd be better at it. I'm also wondering if we should just not mention Kush at all . . . It seems like it really isn't necessary for our story. |
| Date | 14:58:08, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | That would also avoid stepping on Cobura's toes (Cobura has two regions that are based on Kush). |
| Date | 15:48:45, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I just have one thing to say about the demographics. For this sentence, "The citizens of Hawu Mumenhes are Ancient Egyptian-speaking African Americans.", I'd take out the Americans part. I'll have the language and religion part up soon. |
| Date | 16:03:44, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I don't know what languages to include other than neter Senek (God Tongue) [What do you think of calling the language Neter Senek?]. |
| Date | 16:13:55, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | That name sounds good. I picked called the African American because real life African Americans are a melting pot of African ethnicities like the Hawu. . . . Would you be willing to keep it if I explained that better? |
| Date | 16:16:36, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | And if we include any other languages, they should probably be the major language(s) from some of the major home-countries. I do think they should be (very) low relative to Neter Senek. . . . Or maybe most Hawu can be bilingual . . . |
| Date | 16:17:05, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Yeah. But still, what languages should I put in the language section? |
| Date | 16:17:40, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | * I called them African Americans because . . . typo |
| Date | 16:20:12, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | That's what I meant by home countries . . . 26 percent are from Ibutho so 5% of the country could speak Olimi weZulu as their first langauge, 3% could speak Coptic (Cobura) as their first language. But most people should speak Neter Senek as their first language I think. |
| Date | 16:21:25, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Like the Ibutho CP: "~Language~ The Official Language of Ibutho is Olimi weZulu, which means "The Tongue of Heaven" (OOC: Zulu). It is a 'High Form' language used in government business and in schools, and as the liturgical language of the IESS faith. It is written in the Nsibidi script. A largely unwritten popular or 'Low Form' of the language is called simply "Ibutho." Percentages: Olimi weZulu (Zulu): 98% . . . . High Form (Written): 68% . . . . Low Form (Unwritten): 30% Luthori (English): 1.5% Dundorfian (German): 1% Canrillaişe (French): 0.5%" Something like that. |
| Date | 16:22:06, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Just pick whichever ones you like based on relative ethnicities of the Hawu. |
| Date | 16:32:43, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | LANGUAGE The Official Language of Hawu Mumenhes is Neter Senek, which means "God Tongue" (OOC: Medu Neter). This language is used in all government, most businesses, and in schools. Also as the Liturgical language of the Hwt Mumenhes (Foundation of the Consciousness; Foundation of God) Faith. It can be written with either the hieroglyphic script or the Roman Alphabet. Percentages: Neter Senek (Medu Neter): 90% Olimi weZulu (Zulu): 5% Irkawan (Coptic): 3% Luthori (English): 1.5% Canrillaişe (French): 0.5% Let me know what you think. |
| Date | 16:46:02, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Yea it's fine. Do you prefer including English and French or were those just fillers? I'd like more African languages if you're cool with it. |
| Date | 16:46:44, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Okay, you write the religion and I'll write the rest of the intro. How's that sound? |
| Date | 17:06:28, June 10, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Ok. Let's do it. |
| Date | 01:46:47, June 11, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | INTRO The citizens of Hawu Mumenhes are Ancient Egyptian-speaking African Americans. They trace their heritage to all corners of the globe and are a true melting pot. They primarily descend from Talmorians, Coburans, and Ibutho. BACKGROUND Hawu Mumenhes was founded in 4042 based on a plan by Fourth Week Group, a transcontinental members-only association of Esinsundu executives who sought to build a new country in the former territory of Ibutho after mass depopulation in that country. Fourth Week Group aimed to create a country that could guarantee freedom, prosperity, and security for its citizens and the world. In 4039, Fourth Week Group tasked Esinsundu-Rutanian insurance executive Hermelinda Shelby with the creation of an Ibutho political party to implement the Group's objectives. Shortly after its founding, the party, called The Federationists, began urging Ibutho President Sizwe Ihejirika to call a Constitutional Convention on the grounds that Ibutho had been too damaged by foreign infiltrators to be salvaged. President Ihejirika granted the Federationist request and ordered that drafting for the Constitution of a new state would begin in the summer of 4040. Attendees cloistered themselves for two years, with debates hinging primarily on the structure of the new state and the character and identity of the planned country. Attendees emerged in [month we finish drafting], presenting President Ihejirika with a Constitutional Framework for a popularly-elected monarchy administered by a federal government oriented to militarism and neocolonialist expansion. PRE-HISTORY Hawu Mumenhes's predecessor state was known as Ibutho. Thought by many anthropologists to originate in Dovani, Ibutho settlers migrated to the eastern coast of Artania sometime prior to recorded history. The settlers lived quietly amongst the Ancient Ikradonians until a series of territorial conflicts led to the collapse of the Ikradonian government following several crippling defeats at the hands of the Ibutho settlers. On the ashes of Ancient Ikradon, the Ibutho settlers organized themselves into a loose confederation of eight kingdoms. The Ibutho Confederation was isolationist and largely unknown to outsiders until Luthori, Dundorfian, and Rutanian explorers began crossing into its borders sometime in the 3rd or 4th millennium. The Luthori Empire invaded Ibutho soon after with colonialist designs aimed largely at confiscation of Ibutho mineral wealth. MODERN HISTORY Through diplomacy and patronage, King Shabangu the Younger of Southern Kwalakubo, one of the eight Ibutho confederated kingdoms, drew the confederation into a closer, more centralized state beginning in the mid 3500s. The unitary government better equipped the confederation to push back the Luthori occupiers who were finally expelled in the late 36th century. After decades of blundering foreign policy failures, King Mlungisi the Orderer sparked a religious, literary, and political renaissance leading to a 200-year Golden Age during which the kingdom was renamed "The Army of Heaven" and laid the foundations for enduring and influential, if narrow, relations abroad. The Golden Age was ended in the mid 3800s by the Mopoho Interregnum, during which a foreign-backed insurrectionist force deposed the reclusive King Bathandwa, launching the then-prosperous country into 150 years of regression. Alternating military and Metzist (OOC: Marxist) governments lead the country through severe successive economic depressions and a radical dismantling of Golden Age values. Bathandwa's nephew, King Saksoure III of Cobura, attempted a renaissance for much of the 40th century. The revitalization effort, however, proved too great an administrative hurdle for the foreign king, who was himself deposed from the Ibutho throne in 3971. Large-scale emigration, already apace during the Mopoho Interregnum, increased torrentially over the next half century's repetition of foreign-backed and Metzist policies, leaving the country at one quarter it's usual population by the 4020s. A foreign-backed government had planned the dismantlement of Ibutho throughout the 4020s before that government itself collapsed several years later. In 4039, President Ihejirika was elected to lead the few remaining citizens of Ibutho, whose population had by then dwindled to a mere 2 million. CHARACTER OF THE COUNTRY The territory that became Hawu Mumenhes was repopulated primarily through hiring and salary incentives offered by Fourth Week Group and their extensive network of business colleagues and controlled companies who partnered together to redesign and reconstruct the territory's infrastructure and economy. As a result of this unique peopling, Hawu tend to be business minded, fiercely capitalist, and part of the professional class. Fourth Week Group members were in the main patriotic and nationalist. They therefore focused their recruitment on Esinsundu countries, provinces, and neighborhoods when hiring for the new Hawu economy. Many of the targeted Esinsundu jurisdictions had faced down gross and/or repeated war crimes, barbarism, torture, and even genocide committed by of various Artanian, Gao-Showan, and Majatran culprits. This historical memory has contributed to widespread sentiments of militarism, nationalism, and interventionism among the Hawu, especially when Ezinsundu are involved or Esinsundu interests are at stake. Ibutho's exiled royal family and many nobles settled in Cobura, which shared a 200-year diplomatic relationship with Ibutho based on royal marriage ties and closely-related religions. Following the Hawu Mumenhes Constitutional Convention, the Ibutho royal family returned to their land of origin to reign in the new country's democratic monarchy. During their long stay abroad, the royals had experienced significant Coburization, including adopting the religion, fashion, and ancient language of their adoptive country. The royals brought that acculturation with them when returning to East Artania and inspired a similar Coburist zeal amongst their new Hawu countrymen. Due to this influence, Hawu's language, religion, and fashion are distinctly Irkawan and Domalen in character, and Hawu architecture and planning were deliberately designed to be neo-Irkawan with a futurist twist. |
| Date | 15:23:56, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | LANGUAGE The Official Language of Hawu Mumenhes is Neter Senek, which means "God Tongue" (OOC: Medu Neter). This language is used in all government, most businesses, and in schools. Also as the Liturgical language of the Hwt Mumenhes (Foundation of the Consciousness; Foundation of God) Faith. It can be written with either the hieroglyphic script or the Roman Alphabet. Percentages: Neter Senek (Medu Neter): 87.5% Olimi weZulu (Zulu): 5% Irkawan (Coptic): 3% Mallan (Ahmaric): 1.5% Watembo (Swahili): 1.5% Luthori (English): 1.5% Let me know your thoughts. Religion to come. |
| Date | 15:39:58, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Looks great. |
| Date | 15:42:11, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | You good with the intro? |
| Date | 15:44:47, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Hosianism = Christianity -Apostolic Church of the East = Eastern Christianity -Coburan Apostolic Tewahedo Church = Branch of ACoE, Coptic Church + Ethiopian Tewahedo Church Arkhē = Egyptian Polytheism Hwt Mumenhes = Egyptian Polytheism translated into monotheism Percentages: Hwt Mumenhes: 90% Arkhē: 5% Hosianism: 5% Let me know what you think. I didn't know how else to describe Hwt Mumenhes. |
| Date | 16:16:51, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | How bout this: The main religion of Hawu Mumenhes is Arkhē Mumenhes. It is an "Ibuthoized" version of Arkhē, Cobura's ancient religion. "Arkhē Mumenhes" means "The Foundation of the Consciousness of God." The religion is named that because, unlike Coburan Arkhē, Arkhē Mumenhes is a monotheistic (?? and panthiestic?? RESURGANCE is this right?) religion. In Arkhē Mumenhes, God is named "Mumenhes," which means "consciousness" (OOC: Mumenhes is the partcracy version of Ra, the Ancient Egyptian God). Therefore, the religion is called "Arkhē Mumenhes" because Arkhē and Cobura are the origin and foundation of Mumenhes, the lord of the universe (?? can I call him this, RESURGANCE???). Interestingly, the name of our country comes from the Arkhē Mumenhes religion: "Hawu Mumenhes" means "The Body of God," because the entire universe exists and apart of the Body of Mumenhes. When citizens of our country call themselves "Hawu," they are litterely calling themselves "the Body of God." Please see the particracy wiki for more information. Other religions in Hawu Mumenhes include Arkhē, the unreformed Coburan religion; IESS, the Ibutho state religion during the Golden Age; Inkolo, the Ancient Ibutho religion (???? RESURGANCE can I include these two????) and Coburan Apostolic Tewahedo Hosianism. Hwt Mumenhes: 90% (RESURGANCE: I keep spelling it Hawu instead of Hwt, am I spelling it wrong?) IESS: 5% Inkolo: 1% Arkhē: 5% Coburan Apostolic Tewahedo Church: 5% (RESURGANCE: do you want agnostics and athiests or no?) |
| Date | 16:19:18, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | *exists within and is part of the Body of God* Typo |
| Date | 16:25:58, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Here are Cobura's names for the Kemetic Gods. I think their Hamse is Ra right? I like Mumenhes too much to change it, but maybe we should mention that they're the same God (if they are). http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Arkh%C4%93#Deities |
| Date | 17:13:53, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 1. Hwt means Foundation. So I replaced Arkhe with Hwt. 2. I'd call it Monotheistic because the Gaxeimewtru are not manifestation of God. Only Ra, Kephri, and Atum could be called manifestations of God. 3. I think that we should call the religion Hwt Mumenhes (Foundation of the Consciousness) instead of Arkhe Mumenhes. We could call the followers of the Arkhe religion the Arkhe Mumenhes or something like that. 4. Yes I think we should add a small number of IESS and Inkolo to show that we didn't just sweep everything of old out. 5. Yes you could call him the Lord of the Universe. 6. Final thing: The percentages don't add up correctly. |
| Date | 18:27:43, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | 1. and 3. I'm still preferring Arkhe Mumenhes. It makes it obvious that it's the Coburan religion with some Hawu tweaks. Most people aren't going to read the whole CP or the whole wiki, but when they see the word Arkhe they'll know immediately that the two religions are related. Since it's a RP game, we can't really pretend other players' RP doesn't really exist (Cobura's been doing Arkhe since like 2014, maybe earlier). We've changed the name of their Gods, we're butting in on their Egypt theme, and this country is probably going to more popular with players than Cobura (since Cobura is modern Egypt with a retro twist and our is Ancient Egypt with a futuristic twist; plus ours will be superpower). So I'm preferring to do something prominent and obvious to acknowledge the RP of other players. I've spoken with Coburan players and I read what players who wrote the Cobura CP say on the forum, and people will find us disrespectful if we take something they've already brought into the game and change all the names and surface level stuff while keeping the substance but without acknowledging that we're building on work they already did. Naming the religion after theirs will be a simple move but will go a long way to show we acknowledge the work they've done and we're willing to work with them to make sure both stories and both countries' CPs and histories survive in-game. It's not a deal breaker for me, and I don't want it to ruin the fun cause personally I've really enjoyed working on this with you and I'm really looking forward to playing together in the new country with you for as long as possible. So I won't push this anymore, but I did want to make one last case for it. (calling the followers Arkhe Mumenhes buries the Arkhe connection (people won't notice it as readily, they'll have to read the wiki or CP in detail to find out) and it seems to make less grammatical and internal logic sense; and the people as the body of God just seems cooler). But the religion's your baby, you've done amazing work with it, so it's your call, I'll go along with whatever you decide on the name. 2. Okay cool. 4. Cool 5. Nice 6. Yea I know, didn't bother changing it since I didn't know if you'd want to include the Ibutho religions. I'll make it add up in the final draft. |
| Date | 18:28:59, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I think we're done right? Do we need to fix anything before I post the final draft? |
| Date | 18:29:25, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Other than your final decision on the name |
| Date | 18:35:47, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Now that I fully understand your argument for it, I agree. We can keep it as Arkhe Mumenhess, but I say we should call a follower of the religion a Nehseyt Mumenhes or Nehseyt iny Mumenhes (both mean Slave of Consciousness) and the religions followers as a collective the Hawu Mumenhes (Body of Consciousness). I think we are ready for the final draft. All we need is a third player. |
| Date | 18:45:32, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | We can't call Africans slaves. It's like calling jews the Concentration Camp of God. Any OTHER name you pick, I will agree to hahahah |
| Date | 18:47:50, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Anyway it doesn't have to be decided right now because I don't think it needs to be mentioned in the CP right? |
| Date | 19:42:27, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I sent a PM to the Talmoria monarchy controller to see if he'd move here for a month to help us pass the CP, haven't heard back yet. I think if we change the country and start playing according to the CP (even though it's unofficial), I think seeing the new country might attract more players. |
| Date | 19:43:25, June 13, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Especially if we have a cool Kemet-looking flag for the country, I think that'll help attract someone too. |
| Date | 03:46:08, June 14, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | I can design the flag tomorrow when I actually get to a computer. |
| Date | 07:59:02, June 14, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Will you have enough computer time to do it? I've seen a few cool ones online, don't blow too much of your computer time on that. |
| Date | 16:34:24, June 14, 2016 CET | From | Raaper iny Mumenhes | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Trust me. I have a lot of computer time. |
| Date | 13:11:09, June 15, 2016 CET | From | Ity ꜣḥwt xꜣdt | To | Debating the Constitutional Convention of 4040 |
| Message | Okay hahahah |
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