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Bill: Controlling our borders act 4057
Details
Submitted by[?]: The Conservative Independence Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 4058
Description[?]:
| Uncontrolled immigration has led to an increase in crime and a decrease in school and hospital places. We are faced with a desicion, privatise our services or control our borders, we choose the second option. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning immigration.
Old value:: Everyone is allowed to reside permanently in this nation.
Current: Everyone is allowed to reside permanently in this nation.
Proposed: Quotas are based on individual applicant's qualifications.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Travel by foreigners to the nation.
Old value:: The nation imposes no border controls on visitors.
Current: The nation imposes no border controls on visitors.
Proposed: The nation imposes minimal border controls on visitors, with cursory security checks, to confirm visitor identities.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change
The government's policy regarding foreign embassies.
Old value:: Any other country may establish an embassy on national soil.
Current: Foreign countries may establish an embassy after obtaining approval from the Foreign Office.
Proposed: Foreign countries may establish an embassy after obtaining approval from the Foreign Office.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Government policy concerning granting nationality (national of this state without implication of having citizenship rights).
Old value:: Anyone is able to claim nationality.
Current: Anyone is able to claim nationality.
Proposed: Anyone receives nationality but immigrants must pass a test to gain nationality.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The national refugee policy.
Old value:: All refugees are welcome, regardless of their reason, and given aid in integrating them into the country.
Current: All refugees are welcome, regardless of their reason, and given aid in integrating them into the country.
Proposed: Only refugees that are victims of extreme circumstances are welcome; they are given integration-aid.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 21:20:28, July 10, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | We oppose all three articles on the basis that Kalistan should stand for freedom, liberty and openness. |
| Date | 21:51:32, July 10, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Let me explain this bill, article to article. We shouldn't discriminate on nationality but we shouldn't just let anyone in. You should be asked a series of questions about your criminal history and weather you will benefit the economy based on qualifications and levels on key subjects like maths. At the moment we can let anyone in the country carelessly. For gods sake, my son works in the border force and he doesn't need to even ask for a passport! Let's at least check who they are, let's check their criminal record. I know this one is contraversial but let's imagine a group sets up a facist dictatorship in the middle of one of our closest allies capital cities this little toltaritarian state can set up an embassy in Kaliburg and force us to officially recognise them. But if we have the ability to say no then we can help our ally stop this runaway nation Undemocratically proclaiming independence. (OOC: I know this is a bad example but it's still an example). I admit this one is very controversial with the left but it is common sense, you should have the right to nationality if you are born here but if you are an immigrant we should have a test with questions like: Do you have any qualifications, Are you willing to intergrated into society and learn our culture, do you have someone willing to employ you while you reside here? Well you get the basic idea. Finally article five will stop people who come in because they are bankrupt or homeless. But we should favour people who can't turn back because of war famine of disease, people who have a price on their head, people with families and potential. I hope I have highlighted the problems with our current foreign policy and I hope it is changed soon. |
| Date | 21:54:20, July 10, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | How is this preventing openness and Liberty, it isn't, it is reducing crime and terror. Just use your common sense and vote for this bill. |
| Date | 22:22:10, July 10, 2016 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Why would the AKIP talk about the benefits of liberalizing the economy and then close the borders. We oppose emphatically. |
| Date | 23:01:33, July 10, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | All of these articles seek to establish differences between Kalistani citizens and citizens of other nations. Nobody should be treated based purely on where they are born, that is why we oppose the bill. Kalistanis do not need to 'prove' why they are here, neither should foreigners. |
| Date | 00:02:46, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Liberal economics require open borders. If the commitment is to liberal economics, these restrictions must not be imposed. We support the current law for that reason and for others (such as, open borders is the normal situation in Kalistan), but closing them is the first step toward police state. |
| Date | 00:23:13, July 11, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | I would like to address the Free people's movement, there is nothing here that discriminates on where you came from, yes we should ask why are you here, we can't just open up the borders to anyone and everyone! It's a lie that that privatised services need uncontrolled immigration to survive. This bill is not about privatisation, that is the alternative. If this bill does not pass our healthcare will go down, classes will be filled and it will be harder to provide essential services. I would've thought that the socialists would have supported to save our public services. |
| Date | 00:28:15, July 11, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Why do the left wing parties always live in their own little world where they think they can just build more homes over our countryside, why do they think that uncontrolled numbers is positive, it has a negative impact on people's lives. A perfect example is food, if more people come in then more people will buy food forcing prices up. Why do they think they can nationalise absolutely everything with no loss to the taxpayer? I am at a loss at the left. |
| Date | 00:29:19, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | The claim about the effect on public services is pure nonsense! Open borders help us fill vacancies in positions when there are skills shortages and Kalistan has coped perfectly well with the current border arrangements for generations. Furthermore, the statement that 'there is nothing here that discriminates on where you came from' is a lie. For example, Article 4 explicitly states 'Anyone receives nationality but immigrants must pass a test to gain nationality': therefore Kalistani citizens are treated one way and foreigners are treated another. We have not changed our position and still vehemently oppsose each and every article in this bill. |
| Date | 00:36:21, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | It is becoming increasingly clear that the AKIP is in the business of manufacturing falsehoods. Kalistan actually attracts fairly moderate immigration numbers, owing partly to the fact that it has land borders with only two other nations. The 'left wing parties' do live in our own little world: it is called Kalistan and in Kalistan we are a free and open country. If more food is required then that creates new jobs in the farming industry, conveniently filled by the new immigrants. Immigration numbers have actually fallen in recent years as Kalistan has become a more isolated nation, we must try and reverse this trend otherwise we will be all but forgotten on the world stage. Closing our borders is not the way to do that. The AKIP may be 'at a loss at the left' but they are also at a loss on this bill... |
| Date | 00:47:00, July 11, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | The free people's movement don't understand that after taking back control of the hospitals need foreign nurses then they will get foreign nurses after they have been checked. It's ridiculous to say we are coping with current levels of immigration our public services are becoming increasingly like an artery, if under to much pressure it causes the heart to stop. It's true to say that current numbers are clogging up the system. Yes let's have immigrants we NEED them, but let's have them sensibly and let's not have criminals. |
| Date | 00:53:07, July 11, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Let us not forget, open borders not only means no controls on workers but also no controls on terrorists and criminals. It's less about the numbers and more about looking at someone and considering, are they intelligent, are they healthy, do they have qualifications? This is what we mean by a test on nationality, questions will not be like where were you born or what colour are you, no not at all it will be a fair test. We in AKIP are not racists we don't discriminate against blacks or homosexuality or whatever. In fact many of our MP's are ethnic minoritities. |
| Date | 01:03:32, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | We will not compromise on our position that everybody should be treated equally. Kalistani citizens are not asked 'are they intelligent, are they healthy, do they have qualifications?' so neither should citizens from other nations. There is no appetite amongst the electorate for border controls and there is no appetite amongst the KFPM either. We shall not limit the freedom of all citizens to travel in and out of our country as they desire to. If the AKIP really, genuinely feels that there is a crisis in public services then we recommend they pressure Tina Orisay, the Minister of Finance from the SPoK, to spend more on Heath however we believe that the AKIP is using this facade of caring for hospitals to cover their xenophobic tendencies. |
| Date | 04:11:40, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | "If this bill does not pass our healthcare will go down, classes will be filled and it will be harder to provide essential services. I would've thought that the socialists would have supported to save our public services." Where is the proof of this? Does the AKIP assume that the law just changed before they got here, and that all of a sudden things are different now than they have been for the last few hundred years? Our borders have always been open, as long as anyone alive can remember. So why, all of a sudden, would our "healthcare go down, and it will be harder to provide essential services?" Has there suddenly been a mass migration to Kalistan that nobody but the AKIP is aware of? Why would no change in policy from what it has been suddenly produce a mass collapse in the social welfare system? Without evidence that this is happening, we just assume that this bill is mindless fearmongering and is a solution looking for a problem, which is a total fabrication of the minds of the AKIP. |
| Date | 04:15:39, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | "Why do the left wing parties always live in their own little world where they think they can just build more homes over our countryside, why do they think that uncontrolled numbers is positive, it has a negative impact on people's lives. A perfect example is food, if more people come in then more people will buy food forcing prices up. Why do they think they can nationalise absolutely everything with no loss to the taxpayer? I am at a loss at the left." Again- where does the Right think all of these people are suddenly going to come from? Are they hear now? Will they be here? Where are they currently which is so horrible that all of a sudden a whole other country is going to just, MOVE TO KALISTAN? Our population, with open borders has been stable at 99 million. The Right is just making these claims with zero evidence that anything is happening. They are just trying to make Kalistan conform to their ideology, whether anything is wrong or not. Nothing is wrong, of course, but the Right has to claim that it is like that so they can try to sway us to their side. (OOC: Seriously, you can't just assert there is a crisis. If you would like to RP one, you have to get others on board. I might be down to do it, but your assertions really are quite outside the realm of what is actually going on in Kalistan.) |
| Date | 20:18:04, July 11, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Several nations have been ruined by mass migration. It is ridiculous to suggest that pumping more money into healthcare will solve the problems, it won't. If anything it will persuade more to come here. It's quite strange to hear that, according to the SPoK if you disagree with their policies you are an evil capitalist, however when we want to control immigration we are evil xenophobic morons. Kalistan needs immigration, but not in large swathes of numbers. I would also like to address the Free people's movement's point, no we don't ask people who were born here if they have any qualifications if they want to live here. However they we ask them these questions if they want a job or if they want a mortgage. If someone comes here they should have a job availability and they should be expected to pay tax no special treatment. |
| Date | 20:22:16, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | What does the AKIP not understand about the following statement: Kalistan does not have high immigration numbers. They repeat the same nonsense claims over and over and fail to understand that their beliefs aren't even remotely based in reality. Put the bill to a vote so that the AKIP can be defeated and we can move on to real issues. |
| Date | 22:47:18, July 11, 2016 CET | From | Socialist Party of Kalistan (SPoK) | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | We ask the AKIP- Which nations are these? Where is the evidence to support their claims? |
| Date | 18:32:10, July 12, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | In response to the Kalistani free people's movement, We understand that Kalistan has low immigration numbers but this could surge at anytime, large numbers will be able to enter and we will have have no control. And worse still the ones that are coming through are not checked! And in response to SPoK, There are many nations with populations higher than ours and are struggling with immigration. I repeat at the moment we don't have large immigration numbers but we should check the ones that do come in and when the time comes, you will be glad if this bill passes. |
| Date | 18:48:18, July 12, 2016 CET | From | Labour Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | If there is ever an immigration crisis then we would support emergency measures to strengthen our borders as are necessary but we don't really envisage this ever happening because Kalistan has no major draw which would attract huge numbers of people. No country in Terra has a population of even 500,000 more than that of Kalistan. We encourage the AKIP to do even a little research on the topic in order that the constant stream of lies from the AKIP may be ended. |
| Date | 22:13:41, July 12, 2016 CET | From | The Conservative Independence Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Fair enough, suppose we do numbers and we say let's take in 40,000 which is a reasonable number. But that 40,000 have not been checked, not asked for papers, just ushered through. They do not have jobs already taken they don't have qualifications, they are bankrupt and they're lives are heading in the wrong direction. They would be a burden. A strain on healthcare. We could change this with a point system, fair immigration reform and a strong border team. Can I please also add, some immigrants can be a good benefit to the economy. Let's let them in, we should be able to pick and choose good citizens. Also may I say that these are not racist proposals at all. I can garuntee that at some point these issues will be raised again if not soon, in the near future. We will move this to a bill. |
| Date | 00:20:15, July 13, 2016 CET | From | Democratic Front Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Whilst the party does not fully agree with the free movement of people and would agree with AKIP on Articles 1 and 2; the authoritarian nature of the remaining Articles and the United Republic of Karistan's current immigration numbers see this bill to be needless. |
| Date | 00:25:23, July 13, 2016 CET | From | Democratic Front Party | To | Debating the Controlling our borders act 4057 |
| Message | Whilst the party does not fully agree with the free movement of people and would agree with AKIP on Articles 1 and 2; the authoritarian nature of the remaining Articles and the United Republic of Karistan's current immigration numbers see this bill to be needless. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 170 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 580 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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