We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: Bill of Change
Details
Submitted by[?]: Traditionalist Party of Beluzia
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 5004
Description[?]:
| Justification the government is too large and too inconsistent to regulate alcohol, these policies should be left for the local states to decide upon. 2. Members of parliament just argue amongst themselves and can't make decisions when they are so divided, so we believe we should pay them less. 3. I want to change the adulthood age to 17 because this is the age where teenagers start to mature and act more like adults. Our party believes that at 17 people should somewhat be ready to live indepently without significant help from there parents, also we think that in court 17 should be the age that they are tried as an adult, because at this point they know better and should be good citezens, and many people have cars, and graduate at this age. 4. We also think that 65 should be the retirement age because many people live to be 75-85, and just want to have some life to live without working, and the of 65 is when people's bodies start failing and shutting down, so they start to becom elderly, and most people will have already worked for over forty years, and have the right to retire. This is my justification for this, and I have changed the other articles so we may be able to agree a little more. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards alcoholic beverages.
Old value:: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, and can only be available to adults.
Current: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, and can only be available to adults.
Proposed: Alcoholic beverages are regulated by local governments.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The salaries of members of parliament and/or government.
Old value:: Members of parliament and/or government are entitled to a comparatively average salary.
Current: Members of parliament and/or government have all their expenses paid for by the state.
Proposed: Members of parliament and/or government are entitled to a comparatively small salary.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The age at which a person is considered an adult (limited between 12 and 24).
Old value:: 18
Current: 18
Proposed: 17
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The professional retirement age.
Old value:: 66
Current: 60
Proposed: 65
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:01:33, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | I will leave this bill in debate until I see an agreement on what you guys think should stay here or be changed. |
| Date | 15:10:29, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Social Democratic Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | Our opinions: I’m not sure we’d be able to vote in favour of Article 1. Not the fact that we oppose as a party, but mostly the opposition from the more progressive factions of our party. I don’t think we’ll be able to agree on Article 2, but we don’t hate the idea. Article 3 is a complete no. There’s no reason why members of the legislature should get more money for arguing amongst themselves than a doctor does for saving hundreds of lives. Another no for Article 4. Not required. As for Articles 5 and 6, we may be able to get behind those proposals, but only with significant justification. Overall, this bill is taking us backwards, not forwards. And that means we shall oppose. Bram Lockwood, SDP General Spokesperson and Secretary of the SDP |
| Date | 15:17:51, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | so would like me to change those articles or remove them entirely? |
| Date | 15:26:04, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Social Democratic Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | We could back it if Articles 2 and 3 were removed, but other than that we’re happy. Bram Lockwood |
| Date | 15:28:02, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | I want to change the adulthood age to 17 because this is the age where teenagers start to mature and act more like adults. Our party believes that at 17 people should somewhat be ready to live indepently without significant help from there parents, also we think that in court 17 should be the age that they are tried as an adult, because at this point they know better and should be good citezens, and many people have cars, and graduate at this age. We also think that 65 should be the retirement age because many people live to be 75-85, and just want to have some life to live without working, and the of 65 is when people's bodies start failing and shutting down, so they start to becom elderly, and most people will have already worked for over forty years, and have the right to retire. This is my justification for this, and I have changed the other articles so we may be able to agree a little more. |
| Date | 15:56:00, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Social Democratic Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | We would be happy to support the Traditionalists’ proposal in this form and await the response of the other members of Parliament. Bram Lockwood |
| Date | 15:58:56, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | good copy I'lll wait a little bit until untill proceding to vote |
| Date | 16:44:23, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | Unsubmissive Workers Party have anything to say? |
| Date | 17:03:21, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | Unsubmissive Beluzian Worker's Party, what is your reasoning for voting yes on this bill? |
| Date | 17:16:09, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: As I mentioned in my message to you, while I would like to put out my reasoning, I have gotten tired of the function in my 5-6 years playing this game. I have repeated many arguments over and over again and whatever I say will not have any impact in game because the game functions through clicking buttons. Debating in Particracy is what certain parties like to do, not everyone does or likes it, and in fact many Particracy countries don't debate on their bills. Neither is it mandatory. Furthermore, if I had to put out my reasoning, it would not be a paragraph, it would be a long essay, and I do not believe that a short summary would be able to put out my viewpoint. Furthermore, I respect the Traditionalist Party's decision to ask me for my views but I am curious as to why it is insistent on getting an answer out of me, and also why on certain bills that the Traditionalists have proposed, they do not ask me why I voted the way I do. I have no problem with this line of questioning but I have troubles understanding it |
| Date | 17:26:03, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | In the other bills, most of the time you have opposed, I have thought of asking other parties why they voted, but I'm starting to become interested in the way that you vote, and that you have the largest share of seats in the parliament so I just want to see if you oppose or support it before I go to the voting procedure. |
| Date | 17:32:02, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: Like many other parties, I believe their political leanings will reflect the way that they vote. Furthermore, you don't really need to ask the largest party for their views because a bill either passes or doesn't. And yes, while IRL parties will come out in opposition or in support, I do not believe the nature of the game allows for this questioning (not that it's not acceptable) |
| Date | 17:35:57, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: Ok I agree with you but, I still think that since you are the largest party you have the most impact on whether or not a bill passes, but I will stop badgering you, since you have a solid argument |
| Date | 17:40:56, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: I responded to your message which covers what you're saying. You haven't been badgering. In fact, you are not even badgering because your question is a way of getting me engaged, what I consider pestering is political parties that make arguments which make no sense, for example, 'why do we need trade deals or diplomatic agreements', and then keep on asking you to clarify over and over and having you respond to questions that make no sense at all |
| Date | 17:44:43, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Traditionalist Party of Beluzia | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | ok |
| Date | 17:45:35, September 25, 2021 CET | From | Unsubmissive Beluzian Workers Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: I've faced people like that in my time in Beluzia, and this party is known as the Beluzian Renewal Party. You should see the arguments that I had with them when they first popped up in Beluzia. Eventually we worked together on certain things and I think went into government too, but the early days were not stable |
| Date | 21:08:37, September 25, 2021 CET | From |  The Federal Whig Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | OOC: We hold fast to the belief that politicians should have a comparatively minute salary rather than merely a small one. |
| Date | 00:40:59, September 26, 2021 CET | From | Beluzian National Independence Party | To | Debating the Bill of Change |
| Message | We oppose articles 1, 2 and 3. We do however, support the lowering of the retirement age. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 404 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 127 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 119 |
| Random fact: Discuss flag designs at the Flag Designs thread: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37 |
| Random quote: "Aristocracy and exclusiveness tend to final overthrow, in language as in politics." - W. D. Whitney |