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Bill: Pensions Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Democratic Socialist Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2080
Description[?]:
| At present, we have a pensions crisis. Thousands are retiring with no savings, doomed to live an impoverished life for the rest of their days. We should support those who have contributed so much through a public pension system. Who will look after us in our old age? |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the pension system.
Old value:: The state does not operate a pension system. Individuals must save up for retirement on their own.
Current: The state offers a voluntary public pension, combined with other voluntary private pensions.
Proposed: The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:31:00, July 02, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Its compulsary whereas right now its optional. If the people don't want to, fine. We shouldn't force them too. Especiall government. Government should not force it onto the people. |
| Date | 19:34:25, July 02, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Not unless they save it themselves. You really don't trust people do you? |
| Date | 19:42:16, July 02, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension
Bull! what your prosing is a compulsary public plan with an option to go private. Sorry but you just contradicted yourself. |
| Date | 19:44:22, July 02, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | What? How?
And I see you have no problem with the poor starving to death, but euthanasia is wrong in your eyes. Ah, the irony, the hypocrisy. |
| Date | 19:46:17, July 02, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Your the one being a hypocrit. You stated yourself that there's an optional pension plan. No there isn't due to the proposal itself.
If the poor don't want to save money, that is their choice. That is what we call freedom to choose. |
| Date | 17:46:10, July 03, 2005 CET |
From | Republican Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | We are against this bill. DSP want to make some wellpaid government job for wifes of DSP politics. The government is allways worst manager. Current system works fine. In our nation there is good habit that old peoples are supportet by their kids. Children are the best pension system. Why government should interfere in family? |
| Date | 18:27:35, July 03, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | "Your the one being a hypocrit. You stated yourself that there's an optional pension plan. No there isn't due to the proposal itself. "
It helps if you read what I say: "That's why there's ALSO an optional pension." You seem to have no trouble with the poor starving to death in their old age, especially if their children too are low-income, but letting someone in pain pass away through choice is eveil in your eyes. There's the hypocrisy.
Oh, and RP: Representation by DSP politicians is roughly 50-50 male/female. |
| Date | 18:37:42, July 03, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | You think people will stay in low-income forever? I'm sorry but everyone has a chance to succeed. If the people don't want to save for retirement, that isn't our problem. That is there's. I will not support a compulsary public pension plan.
As for representation, where did THAT come from? |
| Date | 21:46:10, July 03, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | There is not a level playing field in our society. The poor are likely to remain poor, as children of disadvantaged families do not have the priveleges in childhood the middle class and bourgeois have. If you think there is a fair chance for each person to succeed, you're kidding yourself.
My comment on representation was in reply to the slightly chauvinist "DSP want to make some wellpaid government job for wifes of DSP politics" remark by the Republican Party. |
| Date | 02:27:40, July 04, 2005 CET |
From | Nationalist Free-Market Republican Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | No, DSP, YOU are kidding yourself. The only reason the poor will remain poor is if they are lazy and don't work. However, the rich are rich BECAUSE of long hours and hard work. The poor can do it too, if they put their mind and spirit into it. |
| Date | 19:03:26, July 04, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Because, of course, a manager who inherited his dad's company and has spent his entire life sitting behind a desk letting other people work for him, obviously works SO MUCH HARDER than one of his employees with a 10-hour workday of gruelling labour, who receives a fraction of the boss' salary. This Victorian idea of the poor being lazy is so out-of-touch with reality I feel I have to laugh.
Hahahaha! |
| Date | 21:24:20, July 04, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | And you're supposed to finance a business if you have massive debt, no collateral and no money for repayments how? |
| Date | 17:30:46, July 05, 2005 CET |
From | Nationalist Free-Market Republican Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | PP is right, assuming banks offer that. IF not, we need to put some pressure on them.
If no one takes risks, though, how will our economy grow?
Other than that, like I said in another place, I'm not in the mood to debate, really. Maybe some other time. |
| Date | 18:53:12, July 05, 2005 CET |
From | Democratic Socialist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Small business loans are often unfair to whoever takes them out. And you all know how many small businesses fail in their first years, forced out of operation by large companies. The idea of free competition, a level playing field, is a self-delusional myth completely detached from reality. |
| Date | 19:57:58, July 05, 2005 CET |
From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | Not forced out by large companies. Some yes but not all. Most fail because of bad ownership, bad management, location (which is everything for a business), and no advertising. |
| Date | 00:29:46, July 06, 2005 CET |
From | Social Dynamist Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | In any case, someone who is just not good at running a business, but, say, an exceptional and hard-working farmer will get a farmer's wage and have no money for a pension - even if they contribute more to society than a money-shuffling businessman.
Not everyone was born with equal skill at everything. Therefore there is no equality of opportunity.
Unless, of course, we give everyone good public education, good healthcare, and pay the teachers, doctors, farmers, individual workers as well as they actually deserve. And until we have fair working pay, we can't expect everyone to have the same saving opportunity. |
| Date | 23:08:00, July 13, 2005 CET |
From | Republican Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | DSP Closing small business is normal think. If business have no profit it's useless. Peoples don't vot for this business with their Turkalis(Dolars). |
| Date | 14:55:31, July 14, 2005 CET |
From | Patriot Party | To | Debating the Pensions Bill | | Message | This bill has been rejected by the Tribal Council |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 74 |
| no | Total Seats: 182 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 43 |
| Random fact: By default the head of government is the ultimate authority within a national government. In general terms, heads of government are expected to consult with cabinet colleagues (including those from other parties) before making significant decisions but they remain responsible for government action. |
| Random quote: "Before all else, be armed." -
Niccolo Machiavelli |