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Bill: OOC: Civil War RP
Details
Submitted by[?]: United Justice Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 3374
Description[?]:
| Zongxian tells me that some of you do not want to do this civil war RP, and we got into a helluva fight, as can be seen on the Badaran news thread in the forums. So, here's a deal. If this bill passes, the RP will be aborted and we will pretend that the civil war never happened. If it does not, it will continue. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 03:40:51, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Badara - Queranzist Brotherhood | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: This was never a simple matter of yes/no "I want to RP a civil war." And anyways, most all the RP of this apparent civil war has been solely from you, with the occasional reaction post from the RDA. Other than that, one or two players have brought in some foreign support to factions (to the Vanguard faction I believe). Beyond this, the involvement of other players in Badara has been minimal. Jalal hasn't even expressed much recognition of the civil war IC or OOC. Nor has Freedom, DUP, or the UWPF. And as for the Defenders and the Tribal Council, I've only seen their involvement in relation to the genocide which occurred at some point. My party came about just prior to the arrival of all the new Vanguard parties. Within a few game years Badara turned into a convoluted mess. The Vanguard ideology became transformed into something entirely new and the RP of the nation has become entirely ignorant of the game mechanics and norms. Somehow Badara is now in civil war. Somehow there is still this idea that the RLTV still holds power, can stop legislators from voting, etc. None of the above paragraph would be a problem if there was agreement from the other players of Badara. It would be a simple RP. But that is not what this is. You've forced through this RP and now many of us seem to just be along for the ride. |
| Date | 04:04:58, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Justice Party | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: Apart from "I hate you, you're a stupid, egocentric f***ing c***", which is your point? Apart from whinge and complain, what do you want? I have offered a compromise: this bill. If you want to throw out the civil war, throw it out. Vote yes. About the rest, there is not much that you, or I, or anyone else can do, as far as I can see. And you have not offered a solution either. |
| Date | 04:15:24, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Badara - Queranzist Brotherhood | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: You are simplifying the issue. And I am not here to singularly declare a solution. To this point, this discussion has been solely between us. I will let others have input or even offer solutions they may have, before I go and make one all by myself. And even if I did try to craft a solution, where would I start when this problem has persisted for so long. But whatever, I will allow others to have their voices heard. As for this bill, I will likely not vote on it.. |
| Date | 04:29:53, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Justice Party | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: You raise all that hell so that I go and propose this bill, and suddenly "I willl likely not vote on it"? Your incessant complaining is achieving nothing apart from giving us a litany of hardly veiled insults to occupy our time with. At least I am trying to address the situation; you are trying to inflame it. In part I did this to ameliorate you. I am not simplifying the issue; I am reducing it to what can be handled at the present time. So please, if you have nothing better to do than complain and condemn, and if you are not going to offer a viable solution, will you kindly deprive us of the misery of your tedious diatribes. |
| Date | 04:48:20, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Badara - Queranzist Brotherhood | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: I didn't ask you to make a bill, so don't complain about my reaction. I await to hear input from others regarding the RP issue. |
| Date | 05:32:49, October 01, 2012 CET | From | Red Vanguard Dominion | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: I was largely unaware of a lot of this. I'm sadly not able to be as active as I once was, and I only just recently found out about the Badaran Crisis forum and all the other forum posts and such. I didn't know we were in a civil war. And I worry your counter-government and counter-counter-government, with all its allegiances and attempts to win over foreign nations and play as though you are Al'Badara might be going over the heads of many players here by occurring solely on the forums. It is much the same as the qualms I had over the Enabling Act; it isolates, and it makes some players feel left out and unaware while wholly invalidating the game mechanic. I don't much like it, but we are not the majority party right now, but I'm not going to declare a counter government right off the bat. The angry personal attacks ain't helping so much either. The flat fact is this: I wasn't aware of much else beyond the genocide and the Tribalists being mad. I do, very much, worry about the use of "Vanguard" since your Radicals came. Yes, I liked the new perspective and respectful continuation of my RP contribution to Badaran history, but I am now concerned about historical legacy. In the most respectful way EEL, you're making the Vanguard concept into a hyper-evil farce, a bad-just-for-the-sake-of-bad super-villain plot that doesn't leave much room for others to contribute. The Red Vanguard Society was so named because, when I joined and formed the party all those years ago, Al'Badara was pretty much dead. There was not much activity, and while there was much Majatran culture in the titles of things and the national name, nothing was really happening. So I arrogantly went out and, like a Vanguard, forced through all this RP and storyline. United Badara was playing in Kafuristan, and he provided an RP counterpoint. EEL, you were in Zardugal and provided the same. All this extra-Al'Badara stuff flourished because very little was happening, or could happen, in Al'Badara. Besides Al'Democraty, no other party was active or vocal. But times have changed. Freedom joined, the Union joined, DUP joined, its a lot more crowded in here, and the heavy-handed dictatorship Vanguard can't fly anymore. I've softened the party out of OOC respect and fairness to the new opposition/successors. But you've tried to save the Vanguard by making it extreme and alienating, by turning it into an in-game Nazi party, loathed by foreign nations. You're pooping on my legacy, and not giving my party a very good name. And this Enabling Act, this Civil War, all of it goes above the heads of the players and the mechanics of the game. It doesn't matter who has more seats, or what bill passes, and so that preserves your ability to tout strength and power in the forums. That's wrong. I think the game should be the foundation upon which RP is built. It super, duper sucks that I can't make a wacky law and have it pass right now. But that is the RP guildelines I have to work within. I'd never want to "Enabling Act" over them. The Civil War as RP should be thrown out, but the OOC lessons learned from its build up and continuation need to be discussed. |
| Date | 08:43:38, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Justice Party | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: The Enabling Act was more a RP mechanism for the creation of a new totalitarian state, not something calculated to shut anyone out, as many have been recently alleging. I recall that the UWPF was the only party to question the bill OOC, and they eventually agreed to it. Anyway, you voted for it. But as for the civil war, I think that it has really progressed beyond a point of no return. It's all over the forums, and so cannot be isolated like a tumour and cut away; it has spread and the illness is terminal, if you will. I could have stayed my hand if people had told me earlier about it, but you guys kept quiet, and I took that as implicit approval. I think that it's too late to kill, but if enough people disagree, I will kill it. And your 'historical legacy', I think, will not really be compromised by this. You have thrown us out of the 'official' Vanguard organisation. The Vanguards in Zardugal have already said that I'm too radical. Other nations/parties, such as the Karavs and Gaduris have already drawn a stark distinction between you Vanguards and us Vanguards: you're semi-reasonable, and I'm totally evil and nuts. I think that it is perfectly legitimate to have crazy parties. I mean, look at Malivia now. They're crazier than I am. Sure, it may piss someone off to have my diatribes on how the RDA is "a bunch of criminals and traitors - die, die, die, die, die, die, die!" ad nauseum, but I would think that that injects a bit more action into al Badara. Look, if you find my party objectionable and somehow destructive to RP, I will be begrudgingly willing to move to another nation. I see what you meant now when you told me when I was in Tukarali and wanted to move to al Badara that "I end up hating everyone I play with" or something to that effect. But then there are no other interesting countries that come to mind. Or perhaps Particracy in general has lost its lustre to me. |
| Date | 08:46:33, October 01, 2012 CET | From | United Justice Party | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: BTW, why has your activity nosedived recently? |
| Date | 13:07:04, October 01, 2012 CET | From | Tribal Revolutionary Council | To | Debating the OOC: Civil War RP |
| Message | OOC: Creating a totalitarian state is not possible in a nation with this many parties. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 212 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 76 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 412 |
| Random fact: Periodically, it is a good idea to go through your nation's Treaties and arrange to withdraw from any that are unwanted. |
| Random quote: "People say I steal. Well, all politicians steal." - Huey Long |