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Bill: Harmful Substances Act of 3711
Details
Submitted by[?]: Federal Heritage Party of Hutori
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 3712
Description[?]:
| As the two substances below have been shown as having detrimental effects to human health hereby outlaw their use. As is the case for medical cannabis while we recognize that it may be useful in some cases we believe the risks out weigh the benefits especially when there are less harmful medical alternatives. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The use of cannabis for medicinal purposes.
Old value:: Cannabis is legal as a sedative for patients in pain.
Current: Cannabis is legal as a sedative for patients in pain.
Proposed: The medicinal use of cannabis is illegal.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards smoking.
Old value:: Smoking is legal outdoors and in private homes and clubs, but illegal indoors in all places of employment.
Current: Smoking is legal outdoors and in private homes and clubs, but illegal indoors in places of employment, with the exception of places that primarily serve liquor.
Proposed: Smoking is prohibited.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change Sale of tobacco products.
Old value:: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Current: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Proposed: The sale of tobacco products is prohibited.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 05:22:53, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Rt Hon Harold Clarke MP, Leader of the Opposition, Madam Speaker, i find it somewhat ironic that the Federalists lambasted our arguments for suggesting that paramilitaries in the streets of Hutori were immoral, yet they countered our argument by saying that it provided citizens with more rights. Yet here they are dictating what substances people can or cannot use, taking away the rights of people to smoke and taking the rights of those in pain to recieve a proven sedative. Furthermore they claim - rather ironically - that this is for health concerns yet apparantly privately armed groups are not a threat to the health of the people of Hutori. Considering the lectures our party has taken from the Federalists, his is an outrageous proposal which reeks of double standards and frankly it just shows that the Federalists are nothing more than an outdated political movement and are incapable of dealing with problems in a progressive, thoughtful manner. |
| Date | 05:45:11, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, is the opposition's only counter Ad hominem? And our basis for this bill is health simply put both substances have been linked to lung cancer and have effects not only affecting themselves (the user) but those around them as well. As for a "proven sedative" while we recognize cannabis' useful as a painkiller but, there are many substances that have the same if not better results with less terminal side-effects not to mention the lack of focus and slowed reaction time that can last for weeks. OCC: as for your mention of militias being detrimental to health "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" -U.S. Constitution 2nd Amendment Excerpt amount of deaths caused by militias in the US extremely small. |
| Date | 06:30:07, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr Speaker, The Christian Union can not support this bill because of article 2. If the Federalist Party wishes to remove the article or maintain the status quo they would have our support. |
| Date | 07:18:42, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, We would like to inquire as to the reason the CU finds article two objectionable. |
| Date | 08:02:42, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Madam Speaker, Because quite honestly if it were banned people would just find something else to smoke and make their lives unhealthy. It's better to make a prevention campaign then actually ban it. Another reason would be that the loss of profits of selling tobacco and tobacco products could have a negative impact on our national budget, with that in mind that also people are employed by tobacco companies, which means if the companies were no longer there, tons of people would lose jobs, and on a large scale the economy would decline. I yield the floor. |
| Date | 10:37:10, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, we understand the economic reason for not supporting and must respectfully disagree as we believe peoples health to be a more pressing concern. |
| Date | 11:16:17, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Madam Speaker, How way will the Federalist Party uphold this ban? How much would that cost? How will they prevent people from smoking? What will they do with the offenders? How will the Federalist Party compensate the tax income that tobacco industry is generating? i yield the floor |
| Date | 14:27:45, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Conservative People's Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr Speaker, While we are ideologically inclined to support these proposals and have implemented them many times in the past, the issues mentioned by the Christian Union are very important to the long term success of a tobacco ban, and whether it should be implemented. Firstly, if selling tobacco is to be prohibited, we would recommend adding a prohibition of smoking as well, since one could easily grow their own tobacco and smoke it themselves or barter it away. This added proposal would bring Hutori one step closer to achieving an actual ban, while the current proposal leaves loopholes. Secondly, the issue of lost revenue is very important to the nation and while a significant hit will be dealt to Hutori's tobacco industry, there is nothing that can legally prevent it from being grown. [OOC: As far as a proposal to prevent the growth of tobacco] However, if the Federalists were willing to make use of the recent agricultural subsidy reform, it could be argued that tobacco is essential to Hutori's ecological stability. If successful, we believe it may be possible to maintain a moderate tobacco export industry. However, the burden of proof would be entirely on the Federalists in that instance. With only three nations that prohibit tobacco (four in this hypothetical), there will always be a demand internationally. While this is the Federalist's Bill to propose, we hope that they will consider some of our recommendations, which should assuage the economic fears at least. |
| Date | 15:41:39, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Madam Speaker, First of all i would like to make clear that the Christian Union is AGAINST a ban of tobacco sale and AGAINST a total smoking ban. Our fear is that this coalition is going to far to control the life of Joey the plumber. The second article is a direct violation of the person who wishes to smoke. It's better to fund an anti-smoking/tobacco campaign then punishing Joey the plumber with a ridicule law that would infringe civil liberty. i yield the floor. |
| Date | 17:44:19, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, In response to the Shed Party we would like to note that the tobacco ban was lifted just a few years ago and as such we feel it would have a minimal economic impact (http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=414085). And to respond to the CU do countries not ban harmful chemicals from being in food? Many of said chemicals that are in tobacco either as naturally occurring or as additives. Some such chemicals include: Formaldehyde, Benzene, Polonium 210, Vinyl Chloride, Arsenic and Lead just to name a few these other parties I'm sure wouldn't let this be put in food so why is it fit for human consumption in any other form? OCC: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/index.htm |
| Date | 17:55:10, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Rt Hon Harold Clarke MP, Leader of the Opposition, Madam Speaker, we would inform the Federalist Party that this is not a matter of health to our parties, why can they not realise these things? It is obvious that smoking has some negative health effects, but the point is that the government cannot simply run around telling people what they can or cannot ingest. If people wish to smoke, then so be it. There are far worse substances out there than cigarettes in Hutori. Furthermore we object to why Article 1 is included, since it is quite specifically for those in pain and it is scientifically proven that the use cannabis is an effective aid. Madam Speaker, again this just highlights how outdated the approach of the Federalist party is. While we admire the Christian Union's stance which permits freedoms yet convinces people through sensible argument not to do it, the Federalists stance is simply to ban everything. It is obvious that whilst one of our parties is conservative in name, it is the Federalists who are extremely conservative and wish to take Hutori back to the dark ages with their repressive and oututdated policies. |
| Date | 17:59:19, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Madam Speaker, The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community against his will is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. We are well aware about the danger that smoking/tobacco can cause. Our point is that people should decide for themselves if they would like to smoke or use tobacco related products or not. It's an individual right. The CU is in favor to adjust smoking packages, an tax increase on smoking or an large scale anti-smoking campaign, but we are against banning smoking and tobacco as a whole. |
| Date | 18:15:53, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, we believe that the HCP is severely down playing those "Negative Side Effects" which may include lung cancer and death. Not only that but, the HCP say it is preserving Liberty well what about those who don't smoke those who are affected by second hand smoke? You see while you champion the rights of some you ignore the rights of others. While if it only affected the smoker that would one thing but, it doesn't and second hand smoke has been scientifically proven to be more deadly than first hand smoke. We believe it is the HCP who will take us to back to the "Dark Ages" with easily preventable diseases becoming deadly. OCC: Dark Ages never happened the time period you are most likely referring to are collectively known as the Middle Ages |
| Date | 18:21:57, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Hutorian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | OOC : Thanks for the input but my reference to the 'Dark age' was intended as simply a turn of phrase or an expression, rather than actually a reference to a period of time. |
| Date | 19:17:25, August 12, 2014 CET | From | Justice and Freedom Party | To | Debating the Harmful Substances Act of 3711 |
| Message | Madam Speaker, The Christian Union has voted NO to this bill and premisses to it's voters, when elected in office, that ban on smoking and the use of tobacco would be lifted immediately. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||
| yes | Total Seats: 210 | ||
| no | Total Seats: 181 | ||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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