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Bill: Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party of Hutori
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes to change the allocation of funds in the budget. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 4234
Description[?]:
| The Conservative Party of Hutori propose to adjust the government's spending budget to better address the economic and social situation of the Federal Republic of Hutori. |
Proposals
Article 1
| Ministry | Current Budget | Old Budget | Propesed Budget |
| Head of Government | 40,000,000 HLR | 50,000,000 HLR | 50,000,000 HLR |
| Foreign Affairs | 12,500,000,000 HLR | 10,000,000,000 HLR | 10,000,000,000 HLR |
| Internal Affairs | 15,000,000,000 HLR | 9,000,000,000 HLR | 9,000,000,000 HLR |
| Finance | 4,000,000,000 HLR | 4,000,000,000 HLR | 4,000,000,000 HLR |
| Defence | 150,000,000,000 HLR | 80,000,000,000 HLR | 90,000,000,000 HLR |
| Justice | 25,000,000,000 HLR | 20,000,000,000 HLR | 20,000,000,000 HLR |
| Infrastructure and Transport | 55,000,000,000 HLR | 80,000,000,000 HLR | 80,000,000,000 HLR |
| Health and Social Services | 50,000,000,000 HLR | 96,000,000,000 HLR | 90,000,000,000 HLR |
| Education and Culture | 50,000,000,000 HLR | 93,000,000,000 HLR | 90,000,000,000 HLR |
| Science and Technology | 80,000,000,000 HLR | 80,000,000,000 HLR | 75,000,000,000 HLR |
| Food and Agriculture | 9,000,000,000 HLR | 8,000,000,000 HLR | 8,000,000,000 HLR |
| Environment and Tourism | 8,250,000,000 HLR | 11,000,000,000 HLR | 8,500,000,000 HLR |
| Trade and Industry | 15,000,000,000 HLR | 8,000,000,000 HLR | 7,500,000,000 HLR |
| Total | 473,790,000,000 HLR | 499,050,000,000 HLR | 492,050,000,000 HLR |
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:36:21, June 27, 2017 CET | From |  Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker This Bill both addresses our needs for expansion of our military while compensating for our budget by cutting spending in areas where programs were devolved to Provincal Government. We will leave this budget up for debate until March of 4133 before pushing it for a vote to be in effect by FY 34. Isaac Ross Minister of Defence Senator for Greater Wrightstown |
| Date | 16:45:55, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Social Liberal Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker I think that we should seek a compromise between our different visions of limit government spending. We'll never vote a single cut from Health and Social Services and Education and Culture. Ann Richardson (AL-LA) Social Liberal Senate leader Senator for Constantine |
| Date | 17:42:08, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker, While health, social services, education and culture are important areas of our budget we have been over-spending in these areas for way too long. Our public healthcare program has had surpluses year after year and our education system has had a similar trend. Let us be a bit more sensible in our overall spending and budgeting. Something that we believe that this budget proposal achieves. Wyatt McLaughlin (F-AD) Federalist Senate Leader |
| Date | 18:01:17, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker I'd ask the Honourable member what compromise she would consider as we will not accept any cuts to Defence. Mitchell Court Conservative Senate Leader Senator for Sutton |
| Date | 18:49:43, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Social Liberal Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker Our party suggests Conservative Party to avoid a budget cut to Health and Education and limit the rise of Defence spending. Ann Richardson (SL-LA) Social Liberal Senate leader Senator for Constantine |
| Date | 19:39:05, June 27, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: Could someone explain to me why we are spending 4 billions HRL in the finance ministry? Where does that money go? Do the finance minist6y really need that much money? |
| Date | 19:40:18, June 27, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC*Ministry |
| Date | 20:01:22, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: the Ministry of Finance directly finances Elections Hutori, giving out the money for campaigns for the parties thay don't or won't raise the minimum threshold for campaign donations to be exempt, they run the Hutorian Central Reserve Bank, they pay the salaries of our Senators along with their expenses, and (presumably) run the Hutorian equilavent of the Canadian Revenue Agency/ Internal Revenue Service. I know Finance has come up alot... you know could have asked that IC ;) it is technically a valid and good question. IC: Mr. Speaker I don't think I quite made my point clear to the Social Liberals. We are about to go into a major naval expansion program that has been approved by this Senate. The Order for this Naval Plan, which will create good jobs for the next 30 to 50 years, is going to cost in the excess of the tens if not hundreds of Billions of HLR over that time. The increase to Defence is to pay for this Naval expansion and modernization program. We also agree with our Federalist colleagues; Health & Social Services and Education & Culture are two of our most bloated Ministries that are now consistently posting budget surpluses. We can afford to trim the excess and still maintain the absolute top tier service they have always provided considering the two together still make up over 35% of our total federal budget. Mitchell Court Conservative Senate Leader Senator for Sutton |
| Date | 22:35:38, June 27, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | Mr. Speaker The the Conservative Party and Federalist Party are saying couldn't be further away from the truth. The Education system is ridiculously underfunded, the amount of money we give per student is way too low and many schools are struggling too survive. The weirdest part of senator Court and senator McLaughlin advocacy is that they are saying that the ministry of Education and Culture is posting budget surpluses. That is simply not true, I can assure you that we are spending 100% of the money that is given to us. And that's why that in behalf of my party, I can officially announce that we won't support any budget proposal that cut in Education. That being said, we do acknowledge that wwe need to spend more in the millitary, so we are willing to negotiate with the Conservative Party of Hutori and the Federalist Party to create a new budget to achieve the military expension that we are trying to do. -Elaine Mccray Minister of Education and Culture |
| Date | 23:43:55, June 27, 2017 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: Your telling me that 17.5% of the ENTIRE Federal budget is apparently way too little money? Considering that approximately 25 million of the population are under the voting age and thus youth, and about 2/3 are school age that means 93 BILLION is being spent on 16 million.. or if you prefer the hard math we spend approximately 6,000 per year per child. That also doesn't include those who go to private school or universities that the government isn't spending the cash on.... regardless I digress IC: Mr. Speaker If the Education Department is that underfunded that they are blowing through more money then any other government department save for Health and Social Services, and still struggling to make ends meet, then I openly question the fiscal responsibility and capabilities of the staff serving under the Minister of Education and where they are spending the immense of money they are given annually. I'd like to know where the Minister got the statistics that many schools are struggling and why this wasn't reported any sooner then when we happen to be cutting 3% of her budget. I and my caucus would like to know if this has been on ongoing issue why measures weren't taken earlier instead of waiting until we are talking about reining government spending. If the matter is too much bureaucracy and government control in the education sector perhaps now is the time to talk about expanding the privatization of the education sector and allowing private institutions a greater ability to create school to take some of the "strain" off of the Education Minister's plate. We will gladly work with the National Progress Party and the Minister of Finance on a new budget, but our caucus is firm that in order to afford the new military expansion plan a MINIMUM of 90 Billion HLR must be dedicated to Defence in any new budget. Mitchell Court (C-RO) Conservative Senate Leader Senator for Sutton |
| Date | 04:05:01, June 28, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC:Yeah this is exactly what I am saying. Don't forget that in Canada they averagely spend 11 000$ per student so 6000 HRL is not that much knowing we have a free education system. I know that 1 HRL does not equal 1 $ but still, it's not that much. Don't forget that the ministry of Education and Culture most also pay for the culture part. And it's also that you say that the healtcare sytem and education system have a surplus because that's litteraly impossible. A overfunded system is not something that can exist in real life because ther is always money to spend somewhere. In fact, I have made my own researchs and I compare the budget of Hutori to real-life countries budget and I think the main problem is that our budget is simply irrealistic. we spend nearly 16% of our budget in science and technology, even if science is a importan issue, that's way too much knowing that most real countries spend less than 7% of their budget in Science (Uk spend 4% of their budget in science, Canada also spend 4% of their budget in science and France spend 5% of their budget in science) |
| Date | 06:07:42, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: not true at all. I work in government and its a point of pride when a department posts a budget surplus and doesn't have to borrow from another department. Believe me budget surpluses happen. When you try to take real life logic and apply it to PT your going to get a hurt head... TRUST me. If you want to bring realism into it? We'd have to spending 70% of our federal budget plus Jack taxes up to get reasonable revenue streams to pay for it lile that. I invite you to go throughout PT and see if our Health Care and Education budgets are comparable. |
| Date | 06:09:53, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: I'm also going to counter yohr point about Canada and point out that in Canada health care and education are Provincal issues and budget concerns... lol |
| Date | 06:20:40, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: If you want to compare HLR to rl currency what basis are you using? The only one I know of is the TSMU which is worth $1.66. Albeit my last currency evaluation was awhile ago. However basing it on that the Lira is worth about 4.5 TSMU which would be $7.47. Thus putting Hutori's spending per child per year at $44,820. |
| Date | 06:54:18, June 28, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: Okay you may be right about the surplus thing but I fail to believe that one Lira is worth $7.47 I mean the average Hutorian win like 30 000-40 000 Lira per years it's impossible that the everybody is that much rich. And yeah I know that in Canada it's the provinces who pay for Education but that doesn't change what I was saying, it's the province who pay averagely 11 000$ per student (Source: http://www.policynote.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/K12_Figure2-700x483.png) Still, all this doesn't change the fact that we are spending WAY too much in science even compare to other PT countries but I guess we should discuss this in RP instead of OCC. |
| Date | 12:35:31, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Nasjonalt Arbeiderparti 🌹 | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: *The Military RP Coordinator swings into this discussion on a wine of chocolate bar wrappers and TOMS boxes* The reason for the high government investment in science and technology can be attributed to several factors. One of them being as a means of ensuring the development of Hutori's military. Science and Technology and the Military must go hand in hand. With Hutori's military expansionism taking effect very soon, the conservative's/federalists had the high science and technology budget as a means of showing that science and technology played a crucial role in the development of Hutori's armed forces. Reason: Because i tell players to do so as it helps to be reinforcing evidence for when players want to "bitch" and complain about rankings etc. *The Military RP Coordinator bows out of the situation, jumps into a taxi (which had been parked in the chamber for years now) and reverse out into a black hole*. |
| Date | 17:36:04, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: You can claim that you don't believe it but, Hutori's ratified the ITB Currency Evaluation treaty. And I quote, "In addition any nation ratifying this treaty recognizes the validity of these assessments and will abide by them." Therefore regardless of what you believe that is what the Lira is worth. |
| Date | 20:33:25, June 28, 2017 CET | From | National Progress Party | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC:But can't you see that it doesn't have any sense? I mean, the ITB Currency Evaluation must be flawed somewhere. Just look at the income taxes bracket, you can see that the average hutorian make like 30 000-40 000 lira per year. It's impossible that the average hutorian are making 200 000$-300 000$ per years. Hutori may be a Economic powerhouse but it can't possibly be that much rich. And anyway, how are these evaluation made? What is the procedure? What is calculation methode? |
| Date | 23:17:38, June 28, 2017 CET | From | Federal Heritage Party of Hutori | To | Debating the Bill C-31: Conservative Budget proposal of November 4232 |
| Message | OOC: The method is available for everyone to see on the ITB forum page (http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7049). Besides it's actually the income calculator that is off as it reads at the very top "This is a feature under development, do not consider it working yet!" Hence, why I used a different method to calculate currency because the game's system is static and doesn't change. The ITB's can change based on policy, economic RP and tax rates. It's a more accurate perspective of the true economic picture than the game's built-in economic system. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes | Total Seats: 229 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 371 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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